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sorry not interested in arguing rhetoric *NM* random thoughts Send a noteboard - 22/09/2011 09:01:04 PM
Karpinski, the commander at Abu Ghraib, expressed in correspondence with her superiors her serious concerns that DoD policy and the orders she received as a result of that policy were in violation of the Geneva Convention. Her concerns were dismissed and she confronted the all too familiar dilemma of disobeying her orders at the risk of a court martial or following them at the same risk; the rest, as they say, is history.

If she had been following her orders she would have been OK. As for free fire zones is that from the same hearing where Kerry talked about his Christmas in Cambodia?

That is <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free-fire_zone">from the US Army Field Manual</a>, though it has come up at Congressional hearings, for obvious reasons. Part of supporting the troops means not demanding they violate their own military as well as international law, even when they object on those grounds, then leaving them to twist in the wind and/or scapegoating them when it becomes public knowledge. "Following orders" is never an excuse for war crimes, but the complicity of those who follow orders to commit atrocities does not exonerate commanders who give those orders, nor civilian politicians who establish them as systemic policy. That is like executing a mob hit man for murder while ignoring the capo who hired him and dozens of others to repeatedly and routinely commit murder.

Politicians can no more be trusted with unaccountable military authority than with unaccountable taxing authority; that is probably Vietnams chief lesson.
This message last edited by random thoughts on 22/09/2011 at 09:01:28 PM
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USMC first to fight - 21/09/2011 03:36:17 PM 902 Views
Good for them. - 21/09/2011 03:41:43 PM 665 Views
That is the optimal word for it. - 23/09/2011 01:14:18 AM 613 Views
In my imagination it went down something like this: - 21/09/2011 04:22:08 PM 512 Views
Something went wrong here... - 21/09/2011 04:23:04 PM 418 Views
There could be some truth to that - 21/09/2011 04:34:36 PM 490 Views
They need military chaplains, right? *NM* - 21/09/2011 04:36:06 PM 191 Views
not in the marines - 21/09/2011 04:45:48 PM 427 Views
I had a friend who was a Navy chaplain attached to the Marine Corps. - 21/09/2011 07:23:10 PM 498 Views
also - 21/09/2011 04:51:15 PM 426 Views
That actually sounds about right. - 21/09/2011 08:17:02 PM 477 Views
Very interesting, but encouraging. - 21/09/2011 08:28:38 PM 531 Views
The answer on women in combat: - 21/09/2011 10:07:04 PM 587 Views
I still worry about how the men will react. - 22/09/2011 02:33:15 AM 600 Views
Well, you can worry about what might happen. - 22/09/2011 09:17:02 AM 412 Views
and how much actual combat have these units seen? - 22/09/2011 02:40:50 PM 514 Views
Sweden has not been involved in many hot conflicts during those years, no - 22/09/2011 05:04:26 PM 516 Views
The other branches could benefit in a lot of ways by trying to emulate the Marines - 22/09/2011 03:25:16 PM 526 Views
Probably. - 22/09/2011 04:33:49 PM 483 Views
The Lynndie England case makes my point - 22/09/2011 06:16:32 PM 508 Views
The Lynndie England case is debatable. - 22/09/2011 07:28:53 PM 591 Views
sorry not interested in arguing rhetoric *NM* - 22/09/2011 09:01:04 PM 165 Views
The US Army Field Manual is policy, not rhetoric. - 22/09/2011 09:44:58 PM 420 Views
no Joel the rheotoric is all you - 22/09/2011 10:45:29 PM 390 Views
I thought there was a reason I loved The USMC. *NM* - 21/09/2011 08:39:50 PM 199 Views
Good story. - 21/09/2011 10:01:33 PM 425 Views
This kind of reminds me of Full Metal Jacket... - 21/09/2011 10:49:57 PM 462 Views
Re: This kind of reminds me of Full Metal Jacket... - 21/09/2011 11:14:38 PM 492 Views

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