Is it time for my lecture on superfluous apostrophes again?
Joel Send a noteboard - 05/10/2011 09:43:47 PM
Joel Send a noteboard - 05/10/2011 09:43:47 PM
I NEVER use apostrophes in possessives (unless the noun ends in "s,") for two reasons:
1) Consistency. Contrary to the practice of centuries, the style for several decades has been, as you know, to spell "its" (the possessive form of "it") with no apostrophe to avoid confusion with "it's" (the contraction of "it is".) I merely observe that practice with all nouns and pronouns rather than in a single anomalous pronoun.
2) The aforementioned practice is sometimes justified on the grounds apostrophes represent elided letters and that none are present in a possessive construction. This is not, strictly speaking, true, because the use of apostrophe plus "s" to form English possessives reflects English forming possessives in "es" about half a millennium ago. Custom gradually elided the "e" with an apostrophe so we use apostrophe plus "s" today despite most peoples ignorance of the cause. Few but language history scholars would now recognize "es" as possessive, and it is consequently quite justifiable to drop the apostrophe altogether for possessives.
In other words, it can be argued that an apostrophe has a rightful place in both "its" and "everyones" AND that it has no place in either, but arguing it belongs in one and not the other is untenably contradictory. As with "its" and "it's" context invariably makes quite clear whether "Mikes" means "the thing belonging to Mike" or "Mike is." So much so that I have consistently avoided apostrophes in forming possessives from the day I joined wotmania yet believe this may be the first time anyone has corrected me for it.
1) Consistency. Contrary to the practice of centuries, the style for several decades has been, as you know, to spell "its" (the possessive form of "it") with no apostrophe to avoid confusion with "it's" (the contraction of "it is".) I merely observe that practice with all nouns and pronouns rather than in a single anomalous pronoun.
2) The aforementioned practice is sometimes justified on the grounds apostrophes represent elided letters and that none are present in a possessive construction. This is not, strictly speaking, true, because the use of apostrophe plus "s" to form English possessives reflects English forming possessives in "es" about half a millennium ago. Custom gradually elided the "e" with an apostrophe so we use apostrophe plus "s" today despite most peoples ignorance of the cause. Few but language history scholars would now recognize "es" as possessive, and it is consequently quite justifiable to drop the apostrophe altogether for possessives.
In other words, it can be argued that an apostrophe has a rightful place in both "its" and "everyones" AND that it has no place in either, but arguing it belongs in one and not the other is untenably contradictory. As with "its" and "it's" context invariably makes quite clear whether "Mikes" means "the thing belonging to Mike" or "Mike is." So much so that I have consistently avoided apostrophes in forming possessives from the day I joined wotmania yet believe this may be the first time anyone has corrected me for it.
Honorbound and honored to be Bonded to Mahtaliel Sedai
Last First in wotmania Chat
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Love still can't be coerced.
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LoL. Be well, RAFOlk.
Last First in wotmania Chat
Slightly better than chocolate.
Love still can't be coerced.
Please Don't Eat the Newbies!

LoL. Be well, RAFOlk.
This message last edited by Joel on 05/10/2011 at 09:45:59 PM
Grammar junkies
- 05/10/2011 06:46:31 PM
1112 Views
I'm not always sure that I'm correct, but....
- 05/10/2011 07:04:13 PM
806 Views
I didn't see any errors
- 05/10/2011 07:24:27 PM
792 Views
- 05/10/2011 07:24:27 PM
792 Views
Must ... have ... grammar.
- 05/10/2011 07:53:34 PM
986 Views
For you and Tom as well, the same question about question eight.
- 05/10/2011 08:33:39 PM
1265 Views
Tom can probably give you actual terms and correct rules, but here's my take on it.
- 05/10/2011 08:43:47 PM
756 Views
Er...yes I meant them as a singular idea...
*NM*
- 05/10/2011 08:47:34 PM
462 Views
*NM*
- 05/10/2011 08:47:34 PM
462 Views
Use them together, and only together, for fifteen years and we can discuss this again. *NM*
- 05/10/2011 09:32:30 PM
397 Views
That makes sense as far as it goes.
- 05/10/2011 09:02:42 PM
792 Views
But do you actually regard them that way?
- 05/10/2011 09:08:36 PM
779 Views
Yeah, pretty much.
- 05/10/2011 09:25:18 PM
737 Views
No, Joel. You're just wrong. Again. Get used to it. We have.
- 05/10/2011 09:31:21 PM
679 Views
- 05/10/2011 09:31:21 PM
679 Views
I can live with being wrong, at least in the sense of technical error.
- 05/10/2011 10:06:30 PM
780 Views
Let's just pare this down to the bare bones.
- 06/10/2011 01:37:30 AM
639 Views
He made a mistake that I did not recognize as a mistake because I read his words as he intended.
- 06/10/2011 04:43:39 AM
789 Views
You bring up a point that I was researching the other day
- 05/10/2011 08:53:40 PM
831 Views
You guys mean a hyphen, not a dash.
- 05/10/2011 09:00:25 PM
784 Views
- 05/10/2011 09:00:25 PM
784 Views
You're right of course!
- 05/10/2011 09:13:44 PM
854 Views
I frequently am.
- 05/10/2011 09:16:38 PM
855 Views
So I've noticed.
- 05/10/2011 09:19:38 PM
770 Views
Achtung! Grammatik! :insert Nazi-saluting smiley as the Wehrmacht marches by:
- 05/10/2011 08:10:45 PM
884 Views
Good poll, especially for this site.
- 05/10/2011 08:11:10 PM
892 Views
Re: Grammar junkies
- 05/10/2011 08:33:06 PM
785 Views
People should talk in a way that can be understood, else they are not communicating.
- 05/10/2011 09:17:37 PM
830 Views
Re: "everyone's". ~winky~ *NM*
- 05/10/2011 09:22:18 PM
382 Views
Is it time for my lecture on superfluous apostrophes again?
- 05/10/2011 09:43:47 PM
739 Views
- 05/10/2011 09:43:47 PM
739 Views
Unsurprisingly, I don't really agree with you at all on this point. :p
- 05/10/2011 10:29:59 PM
821 Views
I do not really think I am "right" on this one so much as "not wrong."
- 06/10/2011 12:01:36 AM
743 Views
But contradictions are inherent in the entire English language!
- 06/10/2011 01:25:39 AM
741 Views
Ghoti. Also, this is why Rebekah and don't argue this any more.
*NM*
- 06/10/2011 04:44:42 AM
344 Views
*NM*
- 06/10/2011 04:44:42 AM
344 Views
Sure, but not deliberate ones created by grammarians who know better.
- 06/10/2011 05:40:58 AM
746 Views
I'm going to listen to the others.
- 06/10/2011 06:17:18 AM
754 Views
Like I say, I appreciate exceptions when justified (and again, only claiming to be "not wrong." )
- 06/10/2011 07:26:18 AM
648 Views
But you are wrong
- 06/10/2011 02:17:40 PM
778 Views
- 06/10/2011 02:17:40 PM
778 Views
I disagree.
- 07/10/2011 12:15:14 AM
722 Views
- 07/10/2011 12:15:14 AM
722 Views
How utterly unsurprising
- 07/10/2011 02:21:38 PM
690 Views
- 07/10/2011 02:21:38 PM
690 Views
"We want to be nothing if not persistent."
- 07/10/2011 02:39:19 PM
749 Views
Doesn't matter.
- 07/10/2011 03:12:14 PM
762 Views
Perhaps not, but it should, and I am not above being a lone voice crying in the wilderness.
- 08/10/2011 05:17:35 PM
848 Views
What.
- 06/10/2011 06:17:41 PM
827 Views
Those cases are not the same, because those words are already possessive in their own right.
- 06/10/2011 10:52:06 PM
816 Views
if you have trouble understanding my post it is more likely do to typing skills than grammar
- 05/10/2011 09:31:42 PM
737 Views
Likely so; I have the same problem, but usually when writing by hand.
- 05/10/2011 09:53:08 PM
712 Views
#1) I do not use NetSpeak while playing games, texting or using social media.
- 05/10/2011 11:34:12 PM
728 Views
What about NateSpeak? *NM*
- 06/10/2011 04:01:08 PM
355 Views
I did use that once to tell the story of you and CNRedDragon going to see Ice Princess. *NM*
- 07/10/2011 01:46:50 AM
365 Views
I freebase split infinitives on a regular basis.
- 06/10/2011 01:53:36 PM
653 Views
