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There you go again.... Joel Send a noteboard - 21/11/2011 11:05:04 PM
There are laws if you don't follow the police enforce them. If you refuse to listen to the police they move you, if you refuse to move they use force. This type of stupidity is what we get for letting a bunch of far left nut jobs take over our universities and indoctrinate our young into the idea that what see from OWS is honorable behavior. Sorry but civil disobedience is not a right while being able to walk down a public sidewalk is. They need to bring pout the fire hoses and clean the streets.

As for wanting the police to use do what they think is right instead of following the law you might find that what they think is right is to crack the head of the punks throwing batteries and piss on them.

I happen to agree with you, in a sense; I have the utmost respect for civil disobedience, but civil disobedience implicitly invites certain legal consequences, and should therefore not be attempted by those unwilling to accept those consequences. In addition to coining the term "civil disobedience," Thoreau went to jail for practicing it, and quarreled fiercely with his friend and mentor, Emerson, when the latter paid the fine securing his release. The whole point of passive resistance is to not just refuse participation in a flawed system, but passively resist it, accept the consequence of that and thereby expose and spotlight flaws one seeks to change. Martin Luther King did the same, and Gandhi, and pretty much all the heroes of civil disobedience and civil rights, and none of them resorted to hurling things at police or soldiers in the process. People who just show up to hurl insults and projectiles at policemen then claim the resultant arrests are inherently abusive are not activists, but just the very malcontents, malingerers and muckrakers many OWSers are accused of being. Those actions are destructive, not constructive, worsen rather than remedy social ills, and are therefore unworthy of support.

That said, painting every demonstrator with that broad brush is unfair. As noted in my response to Cannoli, it is a disservice to the legacy of men like Thoreau, Gandhi and King to lump them in with every shiftless disgruntled vagrant who would rather pick a fight with the nearest cop than get a job. Sometimes greivances are valid, which is why the Constitution explicitly asserts Americans right both to petition for their redress and to PEACEABLY assemble for that and other reasons. Many of the greivances from OWS are valid. Unfortunately, too many of those protesters too often express them in offensive and pointlessly confrontational ways, and seem largely lacking any constructive suggestions on how to remedy the social flaws they perceive, but seeking legitimate goals in illegitimate ways makes only the means, not the ends, unacceptable. Deliberate provocation undermines their effectiveness, but pretending it invalidates all their arguments is the same kind of oversimplified, willful and counterproductive ignorance of which they are guilty. When 10% of the country is unemployed and nearly as many cannot get enough work to pay their bills, telling them to sit down and shut up when they complain about it only worsens the problem.

It is also a little hypocritical in people who defend the rights of demonstrators with whom they sympathize to warn the Fed Chairman to avoid TX because he would not be safe there, or insist there is nothing wrong with a rabble rouser telling her followers "don't retreat, reload." I naturally see that threat police "WILL be treated in the manner deserved of enemy combatants the world over" in the same light, but anyone who deems that kind of language acceptable from partisans on their own side should have no objection to it from those on the other. For my part, it is wrong in all cases, and that I expected it from OWS for many of the same reasons I expected it from the Tea Party is much of why, despite sharing many of their political views, I had no desire to lend OWS my support. Beyond that, all I can say is that at least they are not publicly advocating treason or secession, which is more than I can say for Todd Palin or Rick Perry.
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An Open Letter to Police Officers Across America - 20/11/2011 03:27:46 AM 1261 Views
Stupid, Stupid, Stupid. - 20/11/2011 03:59:42 AM 734 Views
I am forced to agree. - 20/11/2011 04:37:07 AM 568 Views
You're right, but stuff like what just happened at UC Davis makes my blood boil - 20/11/2011 05:52:11 AM 551 Views
As such things go, that does not seem too bad to me. - 20/11/2011 06:14:54 AM 731 Views
You do know that they initiated violence at Kent State, right? - 20/11/2011 02:45:57 PM 544 Views
You really do make this too easy. - 21/11/2011 10:28:31 PM 789 Views
hear hear *NM* - 20/11/2011 04:47:12 AM 254 Views
Agreed. - 20/11/2011 06:28:18 AM 678 Views
I agree with everything you said in this post. *NM* - 20/11/2011 07:53:07 AM 224 Views
a little late for that - 21/11/2011 01:54:34 PM 489 Views
What the fuck are you on? I need to get some of that. *NM* - 20/11/2011 04:56:00 AM 269 Views
I'm going to start a counter protest with "Bring back the Pinkertons" signs... - 20/11/2011 05:19:19 AM 523 Views
*NM* - 20/11/2011 05:49:35 AM 325 Views
I seen some guys holding signs saying "occupy a desk" *NM* - 21/11/2011 01:55:38 PM 288 Views
One of the most poorly written pieces of shit I've read in a long time. *NM* - 20/11/2011 06:30:29 AM 333 Views
"unarmed and peaceful protestors" - 20/11/2011 01:15:47 PM 569 Views
armed and violent? really? *NM* - 21/11/2011 05:31:44 PM 254 Views
Declaring people "enemy combatants" means they get to treat you as such too. - 20/11/2011 01:55:51 PM 535 Views
Don't cloud the propaganda with logic, Tim! - 20/11/2011 04:16:05 PM 567 Views
That's the problem with a two-party system: it's practically impossible to form a new party. *NM* - 20/11/2011 05:42:39 PM 231 Views
I think that's completely wrong. - 20/11/2011 06:10:15 PM 608 Views
The odds are very long. - 20/11/2011 07:15:54 PM 672 Views
And implicit in my statement above is the following addendum - 20/11/2011 06:14:40 PM 697 Views
I agree with that. However, many seem to think that means it's OK to beat them up. - 20/11/2011 06:21:05 PM 570 Views
Only if they resist arrest, and then the force must be proportionate. *NM* - 20/11/2011 09:52:39 PM 255 Views
If they resist a lawful arrest, sure. *NM* - 21/11/2011 11:11:11 AM 250 Views
they are breaking the law so it is lawful to arrest them *NM* - 21/11/2011 10:46:18 PM 237 Views
In what way? - 22/11/2011 09:12:01 AM 548 Views
Resisting arrest. Duh. *NM* - 22/11/2011 10:11:04 AM 251 Views
You are not allowed to just block sidewalks and camp wherever you want - 22/11/2011 01:54:42 PM 527 Views
In that case I quite agree. - 22/11/2011 02:08:02 PM 495 Views
Its still okay to beat communists up though right? *NM* - 21/11/2011 11:27:14 AM 239 Views
(OWS isn't anti-capitalism) - 20/11/2011 06:39:37 PM 491 Views
Why are liberals such whiners? - 21/11/2011 01:51:03 PM 716 Views
You've posted this, but you don't seem inclined to defend it, one might ask what the point was? - 21/11/2011 05:16:13 PM 481 Views
He'd post, but this is what happened. - 22/11/2011 03:55:43 AM 455 Views
I'm actually calling for them to start using lethal force. *NM* - 22/11/2011 03:46:24 AM 282 Views

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