Active Users:186 Time:18/05/2024 06:35:54 PM
Thanksgiving was a purely federal institution. FDR dictated the date it's celebrated Cannoli Send a noteboard - 30/05/2012 03:22:09 AM
I think that the relative distinction here is that Christmas appears on church calendars as a Holy Day. As does Easter, All Saint's Day, Holy Week, Pentecost, etc.

Thanksgiving may have been started by religious people, but as far as I'm aware, it doesn't appear on any religions list of "Holy Days of Obligation".


People signed a document with all sorts of religious references and prayers in it on July 4 1776, citing Divine authority as their sole justification, so that has as much claim to religious origin as anything about Thanksgiving. Thanksgiving is more of a secular religious holiday, rather than possessing any religious significance in its own right. It's more historical, such as if the Church had the guts to celebrate the anniversary of the liberation of Jerusalem by the First Crusade. A secular remembrance of a religious event, made into a legal institution for commercial reasons. You can't water down a religious holiday any more than that.

Also, Christmas is not much of a religious holiday, it is almost like two coincidental celebrations, one cultural (I know of Jews who do the tree & gifts thing who wouldn't be caught dead in a church, and would not sully Channukah with practices carried over from that gentile custom) and the other religious, and the two kinds of observance are seldom intertwined. The government does not recognize Christmas as a holiday because they honor the birth of Jesus, they recognize it as a holiday because nobody would get any work done if they did come in, and they all want to be home with their families anyway. The legalization of the Christmas holiday was more of a de jure recognition of a de facto institution.

By the way, New Years Day is a Holy Day of Obligation for Roman Catholics in the USA. It is the celebration of the Feast of the Circumcision, because it falls one week from Christmas. Both the observance of the Nativity and the Circumcision have absolutely nothing to do with the actual contemporary practices of exchanging gifts and celebrating the changing of the calender, and to the extent that the secular practices have any religious origins, they have become so divorced from those origins that said origins no longer have any meaning for the practitioners.

My family exchanges gifts and meets for a meal on December 25, because we are Americans. We go to Mass at midnight earlier in that morning, following four weeks of penitential observance, because we are Roman Catholic. If we changed religions all at once, we would still do the former. If we ended up in a situation or place where the former was not practicable, we would still observe the latter religious practices. Really, I think of the two aspects as distinct from one another, which is why I don't pay any attention to the War on Christmas stuff, and in practice, most other people do so as well.

Thanksgiving? Not even on the radar. That has absolutely no religious context for me, and people like me or anyone I have ever seen that is not a TV character (and usually not on a good show - you never see 24 or The Wire characters going around the table saying what they are thankful for). In fact, I would say Independence Day has more of a religious connotation for me, because my political views are based on what I believe "the laws of Nature's God entitle" people to have.
Cannoli
“Tolerance is the virtue of the man without convictions.” GK Chesteron
Inde muagdhe Aes Sedai misain ye!
Deus Vult!
*MySmiley*
Reply to message
For Our Nordmenn: What Happens to Federal Religious Holidays in the Absence of a State Church? - 27/05/2012 01:33:20 PM 1033 Views
Nothing, they are federal holidays still because of strong unions, not religion - 27/05/2012 06:58:52 PM 457 Views
Hypocrisy FTW, eh? - 27/05/2012 11:04:38 PM 603 Views
No. - 27/05/2012 11:16:11 PM 426 Views
Nothing. - 27/05/2012 07:03:07 PM 417 Views
Replacing it with another, secular, holiday seems the responsible thing to do. - 27/05/2012 11:15:11 PM 382 Views
People. Don't. Care. - 27/05/2012 11:29:07 PM 449 Views
Most of them are stolen from heden traditions and have nothing to do with christianity. - 27/05/2012 07:15:55 PM 625 Views
It's all about watching Kalle Anka and Karl-Bertil Jonsson - 27/05/2012 07:40:45 PM 466 Views
YES! *NM* - 27/05/2012 10:48:06 PM 439 Views
Thanksgiving isn't a religious holiday. - 27/05/2012 08:43:58 PM 493 Views
That is rather debatable. - 28/05/2012 12:08:53 AM 542 Views
The Distinction - 29/05/2012 07:41:47 PM 503 Views
Thanksgiving was a purely federal institution. FDR dictated the date it's celebrated - 30/05/2012 03:22:09 AM 448 Views
This succession of two long weekends is rather nice, yes. - 28/05/2012 01:41:05 AM 412 Views
I think Grunnlovsdagen ate Ascension Day. - 28/05/2012 02:57:27 AM 515 Views
It's funny how you use "federal" to mean "mandated by national government". - 28/05/2012 03:49:17 PM 423 Views
I was thinking more "central" government, but OK. - 28/05/2012 04:26:38 PM 454 Views
Re: I was thinking more "central" government, but OK. - 28/05/2012 04:50:32 PM 421 Views
Re: I was thinking more "central" government, but OK. - 01/06/2012 02:03:40 AM 608 Views
I think you've got the Scotland Act backwards. - 01/06/2012 09:48:36 AM 531 Views
I did, though the practical effect is much the same. - 01/06/2012 08:41:03 PM 521 Views
There's a lot of countries that call "devolution" federalism, though. - 01/06/2012 09:52:23 PM 519 Views
What about when most of the country is still under central control? - 02/06/2012 10:25:47 AM 424 Views
I wasn't saying the UK is a normal federal country. - 02/06/2012 10:17:08 PM 472 Views
There is a Campaign for an English Parliament. - 03/06/2012 10:12:21 AM 404 Views

Reply to Message