It would be an understatement to say I have mixed feelings about this.
Joel Send a noteboard - 26/08/2012 12:39:19 AM
The question of Breiviks sanity is definitely unclear; his conflicting mental exam results suggest some ability to manipulate them. My wife says his release after the first ten years is solely at the courts discretion, but other factors come into play after 21 years, and Breiviks skill with psychologists makes that unsettling. The ruling makes his atrocities rational, though inexcusable, political acts rather than deranged; his motives rational, though disgusting, political policies rather than lunacy. Ruling him insane would have told any would-be copycats that similar behavior would be considered similarly insane, not a means to publicize and advance extremist politics. Of course, whether Breivik is sane is independent of the potential consequences of ruling he is, but those consequences nonetheless remain.
As to the sentence, I expect him to go the route of Charles Manson, who has been eligible for parole since 1978 and denied twelve times. According to Wikipedia, he did not even attend his last parole hearing (in April,) "where prison officials argued that Manson had a history of controlling behavior and mental health issues including schizophrenia and paranoid delusional disorder and was too great a danger to be released. It was determined that Manson would not be reconsidered for parole for another 15 years, at which time he would be 92 years old." He has been eligible for parole for over 30 years, but will rightly die in prison, and I expect Breivik will also.
The problem is, that expectation is no guarantee; Breivik could theoretically be on the street as soon as 2021. Personally, what bothers me most about that is that Norway does not allow consecutive sentences: Even though Breivik went on two distinct murder rampages, he is not subject to any greater penalty than if he had "only" murdered a single person. In a twisted but very real way, from the moment of his first killing he had a kind of "blank check" for further ones, because subject to no penalty beyond the first murders 21 year sentence. If he breaks out of prison, killing all guards in the process, there is no point even trying him again: He must be eligible for release in 2021, no matter how many people he kills in the interim. Consecutive sentences would change things dramatically; even capping murder sentences at 10-21 years, nearly 80 convictions would ensure Breivik dies in prison. Instead, he may serve 120 months for murdering 77 people, or a little less than 2 months/murder.
I would very much like that changed, and support life sentences without parole as strongly as I oppose the death penalty. This is a textbook example of why. I would not want Breivik executed, but do not want him to ever be free again: The risk he poses is simply too great. His methodical, meticulous and careful decade of planning these atrocities are a strong argument in favor of his sanity, and against ever releasing him. He joined a gun club to gain access to the most lethal guns legal in Norway—but waited YEARS before then purchasing one. His homemade uniform convince an off-duty cop on Utøya to approach him as a colleague, only to be shot in the head. Police never uncovered his weapons cache and detailed plans because, throughout his plotting, he carefully and consistently avoided any behavior that MIGHT draw police attention; he had never even received a traffic citation. Believing him insane is almost as difficult as believing he should ever again be free, because he remains competent to repeat the worst shooting massacre in history, and always will.
As to the sentence, I expect him to go the route of Charles Manson, who has been eligible for parole since 1978 and denied twelve times. According to Wikipedia, he did not even attend his last parole hearing (in April,) "where prison officials argued that Manson had a history of controlling behavior and mental health issues including schizophrenia and paranoid delusional disorder and was too great a danger to be released. It was determined that Manson would not be reconsidered for parole for another 15 years, at which time he would be 92 years old." He has been eligible for parole for over 30 years, but will rightly die in prison, and I expect Breivik will also.
The problem is, that expectation is no guarantee; Breivik could theoretically be on the street as soon as 2021. Personally, what bothers me most about that is that Norway does not allow consecutive sentences: Even though Breivik went on two distinct murder rampages, he is not subject to any greater penalty than if he had "only" murdered a single person. In a twisted but very real way, from the moment of his first killing he had a kind of "blank check" for further ones, because subject to no penalty beyond the first murders 21 year sentence. If he breaks out of prison, killing all guards in the process, there is no point even trying him again: He must be eligible for release in 2021, no matter how many people he kills in the interim. Consecutive sentences would change things dramatically; even capping murder sentences at 10-21 years, nearly 80 convictions would ensure Breivik dies in prison. Instead, he may serve 120 months for murdering 77 people, or a little less than 2 months/murder.
I would very much like that changed, and support life sentences without parole as strongly as I oppose the death penalty. This is a textbook example of why. I would not want Breivik executed, but do not want him to ever be free again: The risk he poses is simply too great. His methodical, meticulous and careful decade of planning these atrocities are a strong argument in favor of his sanity, and against ever releasing him. He joined a gun club to gain access to the most lethal guns legal in Norway—but waited YEARS before then purchasing one. His homemade uniform convince an off-duty cop on Utøya to approach him as a colleague, only to be shot in the head. Police never uncovered his weapons cache and detailed plans because, throughout his plotting, he carefully and consistently avoided any behavior that MIGHT draw police attention; he had never even received a traffic citation. Believing him insane is almost as difficult as believing he should ever again be free, because he remains competent to repeat the worst shooting massacre in history, and always will.
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Last First in wotmania Chat
Slightly better than chocolate.
Love still can't be coerced.
Please Don't Eat the Newbies!

LoL. Be well, RAFOlk.
This message last edited by Joel on 26/08/2012 at 02:12:34 AM
Norway killer Anders Breivik ruled sane, given 21-year prison term
24/08/2012 11:35:06 AM
- 1285 Views
Only 21 years? Weaksauce. *NM*
24/08/2012 02:35:56 PM
- 246 Views
It can be extended if they think he's still a danger. *NM*
24/08/2012 03:24:41 PM
- 235 Views
How do they decide that?
24/08/2012 04:22:31 PM
- 465 Views
[Norway, 20 years from now]
24/08/2012 04:42:45 PM
- 682 Views
OR
24/08/2012 04:54:39 PM
- 535 Views
Pretty sure mine's more futuristically accurate. *NM*
24/08/2012 05:23:33 PM
- 251 Views
Your extensive experience with forensic psychology is really shining through here. *NM*
25/08/2012 11:08:28 AM
- 244 Views
Is it that simple?
24/08/2012 05:04:34 PM
- 633 Views
Actually, in the sentence declared...
24/08/2012 05:10:44 PM
- 553 Views
If that's so . . .
24/08/2012 05:19:51 PM
- 668 Views
Well, obviously, it's in case he reforms
24/08/2012 08:02:48 PM
- 483 Views
That's where the system goes wrong though.
24/08/2012 08:46:49 PM
- 521 Views
There is a point to keep him locked up. Actually, 77 points.
25/08/2012 06:12:36 PM
- 556 Views
I agree.
25/08/2012 06:26:34 PM
- 569 Views
From what I can tell they do it that way to impose a minimum sentence without parole.
26/08/2012 01:28:21 AM
- 663 Views
really? I hate the media
24/08/2012 09:22:03 PM
- 509 Views
Jonte is right about forvaring, but it is so foreign to us media overlooking it is hardly surprising
26/08/2012 01:16:17 AM
- 1765 Views
LOL, my wife and I have nearly given up on an English translation of "forvaring."
26/08/2012 12:50:19 AM
- 629 Views
Can you give some version of it?
26/08/2012 01:38:07 AM
- 507 Views
Did, in my response to rt.
26/08/2012 01:55:05 AM
- 487 Views
Timothy McVeigh was executed.
24/08/2012 05:13:49 PM
- 587 Views
I never did understand the point of this trial
24/08/2012 06:27:57 PM
- 651 Views
Well, wouldn't the answer be that nobody goes to any sort of institution w/o first
24/08/2012 06:39:56 PM
- 471 Views
I mostly agree with you.
24/08/2012 06:48:04 PM
- 550 Views
What people think.
25/08/2012 07:03:02 PM
- 502 Views
hm
25/08/2012 07:34:05 PM
- 618 Views
So far, it looks like I am wrong
25/08/2012 09:28:09 PM
- 571 Views
I don't know if being a sociopath is the same as being insane.
25/08/2012 09:30:47 PM
- 509 Views
Which is the biggest reason I probably need to be more hip to the definitions.
25/08/2012 09:52:19 PM
- 499 Views
Yeah, exactly. That kinda makes it impossible for me to vote. *NM*
26/08/2012 12:10:38 AM
- 277 Views
It is really REALLY hard to decide; even professional have had difficulty.
26/08/2012 02:08:43 AM
- 383 Views
21 years for killing 70+ people - Norway is a crazy, crazy place. *NM*
25/08/2012 04:44:07 PM
- 217 Views
Did you read any of the other replies in this post?
25/08/2012 05:24:21 PM
- 487 Views
Did you really expect him to read when he had the opportunity to be loud and snippy? *NM*
26/08/2012 01:40:30 AM
- 320 Views
It would be an understatement to say I have mixed feelings about this.
26/08/2012 12:39:19 AM
- 622 Views
For those who are confused about the premise of the Norwegian justice system
26/08/2012 09:25:18 AM
- 575 Views
I fear this clarification may further confuse things, by making punishment seem a non-factor.
26/08/2012 09:41:48 PM
- 606 Views