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Stating opinions as fact invites checking them as facts. Joel Send a noteboard - 01/09/2012 02:59:23 PM
They hit Romney for stating Obama went on an apology tour after taking office and their “fact” was he never said actually "I'm sorry". He went on the tour and many Americans felt that in affect his was apologizing for America and considered it an apology tour. That opinion really is not open to fact checking. He was out there trying to undo he felt Bush had done by in effect apologizing for the last eight years of US foreign policy. The man bowed to the Japanese emperor and made theater out hitting the reset button with Russia. I don't need a fact checker to tell me he went on an apology tour because I watched it happen.

If they were only concerned about the facts then they would have no problem with what Ryan said about the GM plant because it was all factually true but in their OPINION he was implying that the plant was shut down after Obama took office. Once again a fact that happens to be true and they ignore the fact that after making those states and then buying GM with tax payer money Obama went ahead and closed the plant. But either way Obama said with government assistance that would be open for 100 years and then after spending billions of tax payers’ dollars they stayed closed so Obama's statements and his failure to backup what he said is fact even if the OPINION of some fact checkers Ryan was being misleading but they ignore the FACT that Obama did tell those the plant would stay open if the government helped and the government helped and the plant closed down. Obama was the one being misleading and Ryan calling him on that is legitimate even if he didn’t lay out the whole story.

Calling Obamas foreign diplomatic efforts an "apology tour," stating it as fact, makes checking the statements factual accuracy legitimate; the claim does not pass scrutiny and should therefore not be presented as fact. Likewise, the Janesville GM plant was ordered closed before Obama ever took office; he can be criticized for subsequent promises no president could keep, but its closure is no more his fault than the Bay of Pigs invasion is. Saying, "Obama went ahead and closed the plant," is absurd, because the feds NON-VOTING shares granted NO voice in GM operations: Obama closed nothing, which would be true regardless of the closure date.

The fact checkers did their job, better than Ryans; if you object to them exposing false claims as just that, tell your candidates to stop making false claims.
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This message last edited by Joel on 01/09/2012 at 03:02:45 PM
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how to make political convention speeches more entertaining - 31/08/2012 03:57:11 PM 540 Views
If they did that, I would actually watch. - 31/08/2012 04:18:06 PM 759 Views
Ditto - 31/08/2012 04:42:37 PM 427 Views
Ha, like Pop-Up Video! - 31/08/2012 05:04:41 PM 382 Views
That similarity occured to me, too. *NM* - 31/08/2012 09:37:22 PM 204 Views
and how fact checks the fact checkers? *NM* - 31/08/2012 05:19:45 PM 185 Views
Fox, presumably. - 31/08/2012 06:05:56 PM 616 Views
the fact checkers tend be journalist and deserve all the trust that goes with that *NM* - 01/09/2012 10:36:18 AM 207 Views
Facts are facts, and not in the eye of the beholder. - 01/09/2012 12:08:41 PM 382 Views
That might be true if fat checkers limited themsleves to facts and not opinion - 01/09/2012 02:44:41 PM 463 Views
Stating opinions as fact invites checking them as facts. - 01/09/2012 02:59:23 PM 581 Views
I will let Scott Wlaker explain it to you - 01/09/2012 05:56:00 PM 559 Views
Even Walker admits "It’s closed — has been as long as Obama has been president." - 01/09/2012 06:27:32 PM 517 Views
well since Ryan never claimed Obama caused the plant to close it doesn't matter when it closed - 01/09/2012 08:10:26 PM 391 Views
How could he save a plant already closed? - 01/09/2012 08:31:55 PM 371 Views
It's obvious. - 01/09/2012 10:12:33 PM 443 Views
Of course; how could I have been so blind. - 01/09/2012 10:41:03 PM 352 Views
That is a great idea that will never happen. - 31/08/2012 06:08:30 PM 531 Views
I loathe the conventions, but this will make it worse - 01/09/2012 03:52:15 AM 419 Views
you're talking about what people who already follow these things do - 01/09/2012 06:40:42 AM 367 Views
We fundamentally disagree - 01/09/2012 01:54:26 PM 542 Views

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