Put some skin in the game and then you get a voice.
The odd thing is I know no liberal who would support, would not strongly condemn, the approach most appealing to me: Reinstate the draft, letting folks opt out at the cost of voting rights. Curiously, neither side debating "European style socialisms" merits ever mentions that conscription (at least of men) is the European norm.
We took the wrong lesson from Vietnam: Not that the prospect of EVERYONES kid being sent to war means we should carefully consider every potential war and only accept it as a last resort, but that we should have a volunteer military so the nation cheers on every war for any reason or none, because combat is reserved for "those who want to be there." As you surely know, many who volunteered to defend our country with their lives consider the Iraq invasion as pointless as I do, but American soldiers fight where they are told and win where they fight, even when they feel the whole exercise a tremendous waste of time, money, equipment and lives.
There is nothing wrong with being well read and everyone should learn as much as they can the problem comes with thinking someone is an expert on an issue simply because they know a lot of facts about it. It isn't just the intelligencia look at ESPN, they have a lot of "experts" who can name ever starter in the NFL which school they went to and how they ranked on fantasy football points but they have about the same odds as you or I of picking the next Super Bowl champion so their opinion really doesn't have any more value. The over selling of their value and the idea that their self appointed expertise somehow trumps any argument simply because they are experts.
Being informed does not ensure one is right, but is usually a prerequisite, because being uninformed often makes one wrong. Within sports and other media in the age of infotainment, it is important to remember the role of sensationalism for ratings; if Skip Bayless and Stephen A. Smith never disagreed their show would be quite boring.
More importantly, controversial statements viscerally engage audiences and encourage them to tune in and watch the fallout. Fox does not bring Alan Colmes on to inform viewers or disseminate liberal perspectives, but to be Sean Hannitys whipping boy and, vicariously, their audiences.Within academia, it comes down to whether one believes universities mere paper mills or institutions that take credibility (and thus marketability) seriously enough not to rubber stamp every idiot who can pay for a diploma. The first is debatable within liberal arts, but absurd for technical disciplines. Aircraft/buildings do not regularly crash/collapse due to design by unqualified engineers/architects. Once again, fact is not subjective. Speaking of which...
Look at your argument about fact checkers as an example, you thought your arguments won regardless of the actual fact simply because some journalist who had been sprinkled with magic factchecker fairy dust agreed with you.
I know my argument won because the plant closing before Obama took office is incontrovertible fact, and the proof is Walker stated it just as unambiguously (more so, actually) as did the fact checker I cited. It does not matter whom we ask unless they just lie about the factual record: The plant was gone before Obama arrived, and the jobs lost thus independent of his in/actions. He can be blamed for another of the fantastic impossible promises that typified his 2008 campaign, but nothing else. Blaming him for the jobs lost requires Republicans advocate the very thing they caustically (but falsely) accused him of: Nationalizing and running GM.
Honorbound and honored to be Bonded to Mahtaliel Sedai
Last First in wotmania Chat
Slightly better than chocolate.
Love still can't be coerced.
Please Don't Eat the Newbies!
LoL. Be well, RAFOlk.
Last First in wotmania Chat
Slightly better than chocolate.
Love still can't be coerced.
Please Don't Eat the Newbies!

LoL. Be well, RAFOlk.
This message last edited by Joel on 02/09/2012 at 06:30:24 PM
Anybody here ever studied the founding fathers of America?
- 30/08/2012 07:34:28 PM
892 Views
Slave-owning, mysoginist, wig-wearing members of the landed elite?
- 30/08/2012 07:51:33 PM
626 Views
No, never, not even briefly.
- 30/08/2012 07:57:39 PM
661 Views
- 30/08/2012 07:57:39 PM
661 Views
What? Nooooo way
- 30/08/2012 08:06:30 PM
649 Views
- 30/08/2012 08:06:30 PM
649 Views
My US history class was an hour long and I always got distracted by a butterfly or something.
- 30/08/2012 08:50:39 PM
588 Views
Did you just kinda compare yourself to the founding fathers?
- 30/08/2012 08:08:40 PM
692 Views
- 30/08/2012 08:08:40 PM
692 Views
Not positively, but I have often thought they were a bad influence on me.
- 30/08/2012 08:21:48 PM
674 Views
- 30/08/2012 08:21:48 PM
674 Views
Funny, my reaction to sentences like those is nearly the opposite.
- 30/08/2012 08:11:34 PM
620 Views
Fair point; it is revealing that none of the Bill of Rights amendments have multiple sections.
- 30/08/2012 08:39:24 PM
677 Views
You're projecting. *NM*
- 31/08/2012 12:48:12 AM
290 Views
I am aspiring.
- 31/08/2012 01:09:40 AM
770 Views
As a personal aside ...
- 31/08/2012 01:43:45 AM
701 Views
Like I say, maybe I invest too much in online posting.
- 31/08/2012 02:02:58 AM
750 Views
- 31/08/2012 02:02:58 AM
750 Views
Re:
- 31/08/2012 02:27:00 AM
724 Views
Re: Re:
- 31/08/2012 02:37:35 AM
726 Views
Well
- 31/08/2012 02:54:25 AM
736 Views
It does get repetitive too often.
- 31/08/2012 05:07:41 AM
742 Views
Doesn't really matter. You're gonna keep doing it.
- 31/08/2012 05:16:23 AM
683 Views
- 31/08/2012 05:16:23 AM
683 Views
I did. They smelled of mahogany and death. They looked scabby and skeletal.
- 31/08/2012 12:35:44 AM
674 Views
Don't forget Hamilton! The creator of the American economy..... *NM*
- 31/08/2012 05:19:50 AM
339 Views
... and big government.
- 01/09/2012 01:54:20 PM
563 Views
I don't really buy that.....
- 01/09/2012 08:33:28 PM
614 Views
Hamilton loudly and often advocated a central bank, national debt and active federal government.
- 01/09/2012 08:41:50 PM
816 Views
I think the entire Age of Enlightenment is fascinating
- 31/08/2012 06:32:23 PM
588 Views
You realize you just made a great argument for intelligentsia rule, right?
- 01/09/2012 01:48:58 PM
690 Views
- 01/09/2012 01:48:58 PM
690 Views
I would want better intelligenstia first
- 01/09/2012 02:48:28 PM
757 Views
Ah, the old uneducated>miseducated argument.
- 01/09/2012 03:39:07 PM
704 Views
*wonders if we could test*
- 02/09/2012 02:45:10 PM
584 Views
no there is a better reason why it wouldn't work
- 02/09/2012 02:58:18 PM
715 Views
I listen to some of supposed intellectuals talk and I am unimpressed
- 02/09/2012 02:53:21 PM
617 Views
Being well read does not make one smart, but does facilitate it to a great degree.
- 02/09/2012 04:32:05 PM
567 Views
I like the Starship Trooper approach
- 02/09/2012 05:04:17 PM
681 Views
I run very hot and cold on that one.
- 02/09/2012 06:28:44 PM
779 Views
What was that again about "you have a right to your own opinion, not your own facts"?
- 03/09/2012 06:39:01 PM
739 Views
Ah, right; I had forgotten our previous discussion of conscriptions termination in the '90s and '00s
- 03/09/2012 06:48:28 PM
671 Views
If you worked with more engineers you might change your opinion on the science degree part
- 04/09/2012 03:00:16 PM
619 Views
Maybe; I would likely just conclude horse sense is uncommon everywhere, but less so in engineers.
- 05/09/2012 12:11:58 AM
534 Views
