Re: If you want to have that debate more broadly, then it's more interesting.
Nate Send a noteboard - 13/09/2012 09:53:21 PM
The goaltender comparison is not a good one. A goaltender can almost win a game by himself, given just one goal by his teammates. An apt comparison would be to a baseball pitcher, who also controls the game and just needs one run. A quarterback, however, needs a whole team to win. They throw the ball, that's all. They need receivers to catch it and to know the proper routes to run. They need an offensive line to block for them so they have time to throw it. They need the defense to hold the other team to fewer points. Really, the only way to judge QBs is by numbers, because team success has too many variables.
If teammates affect a quarterback's stats so much, why does a stat comparison matter? Maybe the guy with lesser stats just had teammates who didn't catch the ball as well, which would affect most of the stats you listed, or defenses that gave up too many touchdowns, which would affect the win-loss stats. Or do the stats take into account how well the receivers catch the ball? Do they take into account how much pressure the quarterback was under when he made the throw (ie. how well the offensive line did)? I don't know football stats well enough to automatically say they don't, but I suspect they don't. And if they don't, how can you make an individual comparison based on stats that only partly depend on the individual?
Just to add, a hockey goaltender's stats do to some extent depend on the team as well, but not to the extent you listed for a quarterback. Sure, save percentage is a good indicator because it tells you what percentage of shots are stopped regardless of how many shots come at him, but a poor defense will allow more quality shots against. More odd-man rushes, more breakaways. An undisciplined team will take more penalties and allow more powerplay shots against their goaltender, which are harder to stop through screens. An inexperienced defense might cause more inadvertant tips, or might be less able to clear screening forwards out of the crease area, all of which make shots harder to stop. Better goaltenders tend to rise above the crop and compensate to some degree, but a goalie's win-loss record, his save percentage, and his goals-against-average aren't entirely based on his own performance. So if you want to debate, for example, Martin Brodeur versus Dominik Hasek, it's not as simple as comparing their stats.
Warder to starry_nite
Chapterfish — Nate's Writing Blog
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Chapterfish — Nate's Writing Blog
http://chapterfish.wordpress.com
Help me settle argument about NFL QBs
- 13/09/2012 06:20:48 PM
863 Views
Ben Roethlisberger is better than Philip Rivers as of now, regardless of stats.
- 13/09/2012 07:06:34 PM
621 Views
So if they traded QBs they would switch places in ranking?
- 13/09/2012 07:37:26 PM
714 Views
Good points, but these aren't Rivers and Roethlisberger lol *NM*
- 13/09/2012 08:08:57 PM
339 Views
argument is the same no matter who the QB is and I think I have made my opinions clear on the others *NM*
- 13/09/2012 08:33:16 PM
413 Views
Is this the third post about that same argument?
- 13/09/2012 08:12:03 PM
726 Views
I'm sorry, is this not a free country?
- 13/09/2012 08:26:21 PM
655 Views
Right, well.
- 13/09/2012 08:43:02 PM
787 Views
Re: Right, well.
- 13/09/2012 08:48:27 PM
804 Views
If you want to have that debate more broadly, then it's more interesting.
- 13/09/2012 09:17:50 PM
762 Views
Re: If you want to have that debate more broadly, then it's more interesting.
- 13/09/2012 09:28:04 PM
790 Views
Re: If you want to have that debate more broadly, then it's more interesting.
- 13/09/2012 09:53:21 PM
720 Views
Re: If you want to have that debate more broadly, then it's more interesting.
- 13/09/2012 10:14:12 PM
693 Views
Re: If you want to have that debate more broadly, then it's more interesting.
- 13/09/2012 10:40:18 PM
905 Views
Sorry, the FG attempt was not blocked: Romo bobbled the snap, then ran for 0 yards.
- 14/09/2012 01:18:08 PM
831 Views
Wrong game
- 14/09/2012 01:31:23 PM
672 Views
Ah; in that case staggering into ones own endzone and taking a knee is on the ball carrier, yes.
- 14/09/2012 09:43:51 PM
798 Views
...in the 1st qtr! They were up by 12 with 5 mins to go. So... *NM*
- 14/09/2012 10:09:27 PM
392 Views
Yeah, remember that, too, but those 5 Giants points made the difference.
- 14/09/2012 10:30:56 PM
737 Views
post something else and these three post won't seem as important
- 13/09/2012 08:36:29 PM
673 Views
For once I agree with you completely.
- 14/09/2012 01:11:20 PM
754 Views
Me too. You filty commie bastards.
- 14/09/2012 11:28:37 PM
907 Views
OK, I am starting to feel dirty now, but it was worth it to hear someone call rt a commie.
- 15/09/2012 12:13:12 AM
797 Views
- 15/09/2012 12:13:12 AM
797 Views
According to Wikipedia, you're talking about...
- 13/09/2012 09:05:26 PM
619 Views
Close
- 13/09/2012 09:21:18 PM
819 Views
Same argument - Eli >> Romo due to leadership, big games, and championships. *NM*
- 13/09/2012 10:31:12 PM
301 Views
So a game manager is a better QB than a skilled QB?
- 14/09/2012 12:08:43 AM
639 Views
No, but a 2-time Super Bowl MVP that led two game-winning drives is better.....
- 14/09/2012 01:06:18 AM
633 Views
No questions
- 14/09/2012 01:12:09 AM
650 Views
Typical jealous Cowboys fan.
- 14/09/2012 01:20:38 AM
691 Views
Typical Giants fan
- 14/09/2012 01:30:54 AM
612 Views
Romo hasn't been the same since Jessica Simpson dumped him.
- 14/09/2012 01:52:50 AM
725 Views
and Eli has been great since he threw a fit about who was drafting him *NM*
- 14/09/2012 11:31:23 AM
300 Views
If Romo was playing on the Giants last year they would have done much better than 9-7
- 14/09/2012 11:30:36 AM
705 Views
Well you got that answer right even if you missed the question
*NM*
- 13/09/2012 09:36:53 PM
298 Views
*NM*
- 13/09/2012 09:36:53 PM
298 Views
That is somewhat ironic, since Hasselbeck also has the Super Bowl appearance Romo lacks.
- 14/09/2012 01:03:06 PM
789 Views
And that is why Jim McMahon is a greater QB than Dan Moreno and Danny White
- 14/09/2012 01:39:27 PM
636 Views
The '05 Seahawks D is nothing like that of the '85 Bears, and neither is that of the '07/'11 Giants.
- 14/09/2012 09:45:34 PM
712 Views
Tony did just beat Eli.
- 13/09/2012 11:28:00 PM
702 Views
Romo does well in the first game of the season, Eli does well in the last game of the season.
- 13/09/2012 11:55:13 PM
707 Views
As a Lions fan, all I can say about the two is...
- 14/09/2012 09:00:15 PM
631 Views
Ah, yes, Detroit; they were down 27-3 to Dallas at the end of the third quarter, right?
- 14/09/2012 09:51:01 PM
764 Views
End of the half
- 14/09/2012 10:13:24 PM
697 Views
Box score says it was 20-3 at the half.
- 14/09/2012 10:22:40 PM
808 Views
Re: Box score says it was 20-3 at the half.
- 14/09/2012 11:04:56 PM
710 Views
Yeah, OK 27-3 with 10:30 left in the third; you got me to look it up after all.
- 15/09/2012 12:33:53 AM
752 Views
Based only on those numbers, I say #1 is better.
- 14/09/2012 02:21:17 PM
630 Views
Heh, I guess an Eagles fan is an unbiased, if not totally objective, arbiter.
- 14/09/2012 09:35:47 PM
677 Views
QB #2.
- 17/09/2012 03:08:18 AM
747 Views
You honed in on and explained the difference perfectly.
- 17/09/2012 05:48:21 PM
746 Views

*NM*
RUN!!! *NM*