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Re: But a Manning by any other name doesn't throw as many picks Nate Send a noteboard - 13/09/2012 10:01:30 PM
I do agree with the idea that a more interesting discussion can be had by saying who is better the guy on the winning team or the guy with the better stats. Who is better the consistent guy who play well all season long or the guy who gets hot at the end. Or even with a sport where so much depends on not only the other players on your team but the calls the coach make and the quality of the other defense how accurately can we ever really judge a single player just by results? Look at Brees he really wasn't anything special until he got with the right team and the right coach and suddenly he is a shoe in for the Hall of Fame.


Yeah. That discussion can be had for just about any team sport, barring perhaps baseball where the individual talent informs stats a lot more. Even there you have stats that can swing depending on what park they play in, whether they're in a division with lots of good pitching, etc., but I'm pretty sure Bill James has a sabermetric stat for any argument you could make.

I don't know if a player in more team-oriented sports can ever fully be judged on stats alone. The better players will tend to have the better stats, but it's not a universal straight-up-and-down hierarchy, not an exact 1-2-3 parallel between player skill and stats. You have to factor in random things like injuries as well sometimes. It can be a mess.

Fun to discuss, but not worth making it a matter of personal pride to argue it one way or the other the way a lot of sports fans do.
Warder to starry_nite

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Help me settle argument about NFL QBs Dark Knight - 13/09/2012 06:20:48 PM 791 Views
Ben Roethlisberger is better than Philip Rivers as of now, regardless of stats. Anonymous2000 - 13/09/2012 07:06:34 PM 555 Views
Is that who you think these QBs are? *NM* Dark Knight - 13/09/2012 07:23:20 PM 304 Views
So if they traded QBs they would switch places in ranking? random thoughts - 13/09/2012 07:37:26 PM 647 Views
Good points, but these aren't Rivers and Roethlisberger lol *NM* Dark Knight - 13/09/2012 08:08:57 PM 311 Views
argument is the same no matter who the QB is and I think I have made my opinions clear on the others *NM* random thoughts - 13/09/2012 08:33:16 PM 387 Views
Is this the third post about that same argument? Nate - 13/09/2012 08:12:03 PM 663 Views
I'm sorry, is this not a free country? Dark Knight - 13/09/2012 08:26:21 PM 581 Views
Right, well. Nate - 13/09/2012 08:43:02 PM 720 Views
Re: Right, well. Dark Knight - 13/09/2012 08:48:27 PM 716 Views
If you want to have that debate more broadly, then it's more interesting. Nate - 13/09/2012 09:17:50 PM 676 Views
Re: If you want to have that debate more broadly, then it's more interesting. Dark Knight - 13/09/2012 09:28:04 PM 703 Views
Re: If you want to have that debate more broadly, then it's more interesting. Nate - 13/09/2012 09:53:21 PM 626 Views
Re: If you want to have that debate more broadly, then it's more interesting. Dark Knight - 13/09/2012 10:14:12 PM 603 Views
Re: If you want to have that debate more broadly, then it's more interesting. Nate - 13/09/2012 10:40:18 PM 795 Views
Sorry, the FG attempt was not blocked: Romo bobbled the snap, then ran for 0 yards. Joel - 14/09/2012 01:18:08 PM 764 Views
Wrong game Dark Knight - 14/09/2012 01:31:23 PM 605 Views
Ah; in that case staggering into ones own endzone and taking a knee is on the ball carrier, yes. Joel - 14/09/2012 09:43:51 PM 733 Views
...in the 1st qtr! They were up by 12 with 5 mins to go. So... *NM* Dark Knight - 14/09/2012 10:09:27 PM 365 Views
Yeah, remember that, too, but those 5 Giants points made the difference. Joel - 14/09/2012 10:30:56 PM 667 Views
But a Manning by any other name doesn't throw as many picks random thoughts - 13/09/2012 09:48:08 PM 584 Views
Re: But a Manning by any other name doesn't throw as many picks Nate - 13/09/2012 10:01:30 PM 622 Views
post something else and these three post won't seem as important random thoughts - 13/09/2012 08:36:29 PM 613 Views
For once I agree with you completely. Joel - 14/09/2012 01:11:20 PM 692 Views
Me too. You filty commie bastards. Cannoli - 14/09/2012 11:28:37 PM 840 Views
OK, I am starting to feel dirty now, but it was worth it to hear someone call rt a commie. Joel - 15/09/2012 12:13:12 AM 725 Views
According to Wikipedia, you're talking about... Legolas - 13/09/2012 09:05:26 PM 552 Views
Close Dark Knight - 13/09/2012 09:21:18 PM 747 Views
I told you, Wikipedia. Legolas - 13/09/2012 09:49:32 PM 744 Views
Same argument - Eli >> Romo due to leadership, big games, and championships. *NM* Anonymous2000 - 13/09/2012 10:31:12 PM 273 Views
So a game manager is a better QB than a skilled QB? Dark Knight - 14/09/2012 12:08:43 AM 572 Views
No, but a 2-time Super Bowl MVP that led two game-winning drives is better..... Anonymous2000 - 14/09/2012 01:06:18 AM 569 Views
No questions Dark Knight - 14/09/2012 01:12:09 AM 582 Views
Typical jealous Cowboys fan. Anonymous2000 - 14/09/2012 01:20:38 AM 620 Views
Typical Giants fan Dark Knight - 14/09/2012 01:30:54 AM 547 Views
Romo hasn't been the same since Jessica Simpson dumped him. Anonymous2000 - 14/09/2012 01:52:50 AM 657 Views
Ha! He dumped her Dark Knight - 14/09/2012 02:16:56 AM 674 Views
and Eli has been great since he threw a fit about who was drafting him *NM* random thoughts - 14/09/2012 11:31:23 AM 274 Views
If Romo was playing on the Giants last year they would have done much better than 9-7 random thoughts - 14/09/2012 11:30:36 AM 639 Views
And lost out before the NFC championship Cannoli - 17/09/2012 11:01:59 AM 678 Views
A few tangential notes, mainly for tangential discussion. Joel - 18/09/2012 01:00:12 AM 708 Views
Wait, you're way overstating something. callandor1000 - 17/09/2012 03:14:45 AM 635 Views
Another good point; well said. Joel - 18/09/2012 01:16:11 AM 623 Views
Well you got that answer right even if you missed the question *NM* random thoughts - 13/09/2012 09:36:53 PM 272 Views
Excellent. *NM* Legolas - 13/09/2012 09:50:43 PM 277 Views
That is somewhat ironic, since Hasselbeck also has the Super Bowl appearance Romo lacks. Joel - 14/09/2012 01:03:06 PM 724 Views
And that is why Jim McMahon is a greater QB than Dan Moreno and Danny White random thoughts - 14/09/2012 01:39:27 PM 566 Views
The '05 Seahawks D is nothing like that of the '85 Bears, and neither is that of the '07/'11 Giants. Joel - 14/09/2012 09:45:34 PM 644 Views
Hasselbeck had Alexander Dark Knight - 14/09/2012 10:17:07 PM 589 Views
Who was a one year wonder, not a Hall of Famer like Sweetness. Joel - 14/09/2012 10:34:49 PM 644 Views
Tony did just beat Eli. MonCul - 13/09/2012 11:28:00 PM 637 Views
Romo does well in the first game of the season, Eli does well in the last game of the season. Anonymous2000 - 13/09/2012 11:55:13 PM 641 Views
As a Lions fan, all I can say about the two is... everynametaken - 14/09/2012 09:00:15 PM 564 Views
Ah, yes, Detroit; they were down 27-3 to Dallas at the end of the third quarter, right? Joel - 14/09/2012 09:51:01 PM 697 Views
End of the half Dark Knight - 14/09/2012 10:13:24 PM 629 Views
Box score says it was 20-3 at the half. Joel - 14/09/2012 10:22:40 PM 740 Views
Re: Box score says it was 20-3 at the half. Dark Knight - 14/09/2012 11:04:56 PM 649 Views
Yeah, OK 27-3 with 10:30 left in the third; you got me to look it up after all. Joel - 15/09/2012 12:33:53 AM 668 Views
I believe you already know my answer. Joel - 14/09/2012 12:58:16 PM 572 Views
Based only on those numbers, I say #1 is better. Palatine - 14/09/2012 02:21:17 PM 562 Views
Heh, I guess an Eagles fan is an unbiased, if not totally objective, arbiter. Joel - 14/09/2012 09:35:47 PM 609 Views
How dare you, sir? Palatine - 15/09/2012 06:46:34 PM 639 Views
Not at all; I was AFFIRMING your objectivity. Joel - 17/09/2012 05:43:02 PM 657 Views
There more than one rugby playing Kyubey? RUN!!! *NM* Yunalesca - 14/09/2012 06:30:50 PM 436 Views
QB #2. callandor1000 - 17/09/2012 03:08:18 AM 662 Views
You honed in on and explained the difference perfectly. Joel - 17/09/2012 05:48:21 PM 656 Views
Repeating your bad argument doesnt make it valud *NM* random thoughts - 18/09/2012 12:30:22 AM 253 Views
Clearly it is not solely MY argument. Joel - 18/09/2012 12:34:45 AM 627 Views
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