I have agreed with the post mortems till now; no idea how anyone can score that a Romney win.
Joel Send a noteboard - 23/10/2012 06:01:22 AM
...can we just conclude that this foreign policy debate was as substantive as a Honey Boo Boo episode?
Needless to say, the insta-polls favored Obama, but when Romney spent seemingly half of the debate agreeing ultimately with the administration's policies/actions and the other half talking about public education and arguing about the auto bailout, the only surprise was that some pundits on the news teams tried to argue that it was even close at all. There's got to be some sort of "postmodernist" novelist out there ready, willing, and able to write a metanarrative about where the debate is really about the newcasters' use of metaphors and not about the candidates' parroting of spoon-fed lines, right?
Now to await the inevitable bickering from partisans. All I know is that I'm undecided if I should be basking in the glow of the "love" that Romney professed for my profession.
Needless to say, the insta-polls favored Obama, but when Romney spent seemingly half of the debate agreeing ultimately with the administration's policies/actions and the other half talking about public education and arguing about the auto bailout, the only surprise was that some pundits on the news teams tried to argue that it was even close at all. There's got to be some sort of "postmodernist" novelist out there ready, willing, and able to write a metanarrative about where the debate is really about the newcasters' use of metaphors and not about the candidates' parroting of spoon-fed lines, right?
Now to await the inevitable bickering from partisans. All I know is that I'm undecided if I should be basking in the glow of the "love" that Romney professed for my profession.

On substance, Romney declared, "Syria is Iran’s only ally in the Arab world. It’s their route to the sea,” yet the Persian Gulf is Irans entire southern border (perhaps why it is NAMED after Iran.

It was similar even when they pivoted the "foreign policy" debate to the economy. Romney denied his "Let Detroit Go Bankrupt" op ed urged Detroits bankruptcy, claiming the private sector would have saved them; Obama countered no private firms had the capital or desire for that during the Bush recessions double dip. Several were asked—including Bain Capital— but all refused. Without a US government bailout the Big Three would have gone into Chapter 7 liquidation and no longer exist. Obama could have more succinctly asked how Romney will spend $5 trillion on tax cuts, $2 trillion on the military AND end the deficit, but I think he conveyed the point.
So much for substance; on to what matters: Form. I admit some bias, but Romney struck me as frenetic to near the point of desperation, as if he thought ignoring time limits and sneaking in an extra closing rebuttal on each question would prevent another pummeling. Several times that left him briefly flailing and stuttering. The biggest thing I noticed from the start was that Romney was almost covered with what is technically called "flop sweat" (one Obama staffer reportedly tweeted Romney "looks like Nixon, only sweatier.") Nearly as noticeable were the narrow-eyed stares and smirks Obamas responses earned; if looks could kill Romney would have been in Secret Service custody by the halfway mark. He swung back and forth from patronizing patrician to unctious snake-oil salesman, and neither looked "presidential."
Obamas firm but measured confidence was a stark contrast. He put slightly too fine a point on it a few times (e.g. he should have stopped at "bayonets and horses" without giving Romney a condescending lesson on carriers and nuclear subs,) but for the most part he was assured without being arrogant. He was not nodding along with eyes downcast like a naughty schoolboy being lectured (as in the first debate,) but neither did he present a contemptuous phony smile that never reached his eyes (as Romney did nearly every time Obama spoke.) He met Romneys eyes with neither disdain nor submission, but only due acknowledgement.
This is unlikely to move the needle, as they say. The first debate was Obamas chance to solidify the then-prevalent impression he was a commanding leader and Romney an inept scrooge; he blew it, and can never get a second chance. A month is not long to create and run clips of Romney stating todays positions juxtaposed with clips of him stating just the opposite a couple months ago. The final debate probably will not change much, let alone as much as the first debate did; ending an economic election with a foreign policy debate all but guarantees that. On form, sustance and all else though, it is hard to call it anything but a decisive Obama victory.
Honorbound and honored to be Bonded to Mahtaliel Sedai
Last First in wotmania Chat
Slightly better than chocolate.
Love still can't be coerced.
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LoL. Be well, RAFOlk.
Last First in wotmania Chat
Slightly better than chocolate.
Love still can't be coerced.
Please Don't Eat the Newbies!

LoL. Be well, RAFOlk.
This message last edited by Joel on 23/10/2012 at 06:06:46 AM
Between the ships, horses, bayonets, and lines about loving teachers...
23/10/2012 04:44:32 AM
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He loves teachers, but only so long as we are seen and not heard.
23/10/2012 05:07:15 AM
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Which might those be?
23/10/2012 07:25:24 AM
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Romney did a good job, ultimately.
23/10/2012 05:13:00 AM
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I think it's safe to say foreign policy doesn't interest either of them all that much
23/10/2012 05:30:53 AM
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They really need to get together with the Greens.
23/10/2012 07:02:18 AM
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are you familiar with that scene in "life of brian"?
23/10/2012 05:25:54 PM
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I am indeed, but I do not see how proportional representation would help much.
23/10/2012 05:38:27 PM
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because PR coupled with IRV gives voters a lot more choice than D vs R
23/10/2012 09:47:27 PM
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PR mainly seems to give the same choices more OUTCOMES (and meshes poorly with IRV.)
24/10/2012 12:38:29 PM
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The instapolls declared Obama victor in #1 too, Romney won this one
23/10/2012 06:00:26 AM
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*blinks*
23/10/2012 06:08:00 AM
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With you on the first part, but most people conceded Obama had the edge on foreign policy.
23/10/2012 06:24:24 AM
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are you sure you weren't re-watching the first debate?
23/10/2012 06:08:36 PM
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No, defintely watching this one
24/10/2012 04:02:44 AM
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romney should be hanging in the wind with the way he campaigned
24/10/2012 06:28:40 AM
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So your rebuttal is to call for Romney's death? Nice *NM*
24/10/2012 06:57:19 AM
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yes, way to misconstrue what i said without actually responding to any of it
*NM*
24/10/2012 05:20:07 PM
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You said it, not me, but way to double down on it, very classy *NM*
25/10/2012 03:00:10 AM
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i see romney has taught you the ways of the douchebag asshole. you used to be better than that...
25/10/2012 05:42:38 AM
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In fairness to Isaac, the terminology used typically describes hanging a criminal
25/10/2012 06:55:43 AM
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i'm sure if it were not the end of the election cycle he would not have taken it that way
25/10/2012 05:52:25 PM
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I must agree with Isaac and Legolas; violent language like that is a (literal) trigger for nutjobs.
29/10/2012 07:00:53 PM
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I have agreed with the post mortems till now; no idea how anyone can score that a Romney win.
23/10/2012 06:01:22 AM
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My favorite gaffe of the night:
23/10/2012 06:07:19 AM
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Honestly, it was hard to miss: The Persian Gulf is named after Iran.
23/10/2012 06:28:25 AM
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I was wondering what Iran would see as weaker
23/10/2012 12:59:38 PM
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Hopefully America is wondering the same thing, but that presumes most of us can find Iran on a map.
23/10/2012 04:01:19 PM
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..and the folks poking fun at him hope we only look at the cropped map they provide. *NM*
23/10/2012 07:18:11 PM
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It was a poorly worded statement, the "sea" being referred to is the Med, but essentially correct.
23/10/2012 07:16:37 PM
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What is this, the 19th century? Why is the Med so important?
23/10/2012 10:20:11 PM
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Commercial, Iran doesn't have a navy worth mentioning.
24/10/2012 03:41:46 PM
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Okay, commercial, that narrows it down. How, exactly?
24/10/2012 06:02:01 PM
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Right family (Hussein of Jordan), wrong generation by a few hundered years.
25/10/2012 06:16:51 PM
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Hm. Curious who you mean, then.
25/10/2012 11:52:06 PM
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You are too hung up on a "port"
26/10/2012 03:13:59 PM
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That's what Romney and you said, isn't it? Access to the Mediterranean.
26/10/2012 11:30:55 PM
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Re: That's what Romney and you said, isn't it? Access to the Mediterranean.
29/10/2012 02:23:33 PM
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Commercial interests are the only relevant ones, but commerical shipping has the Suez.
25/10/2012 11:31:23 PM
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and one he seems to keep making - how many times do you give someone the benefit of the doubt?
23/10/2012 11:46:55 PM
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it is simply a standard descriptive line.
24/10/2012 03:54:49 PM
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What is?
25/10/2012 11:15:28 AM
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Not really my contradictions, Frankly I think most of the political enteties in the ME are nuts. *NM*
25/10/2012 06:23:51 PM
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I'm refering to the contradictions of your argument, not the region
25/10/2012 11:47:29 PM
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Irans route to the sea is "not being landlocked;" it must go through Iraq to reach Syria.
24/10/2012 05:45:41 PM
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It is not ships and military conquest through the Med, it is political and ideological/religious.
25/10/2012 09:57:18 PM
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Um, I am pretty sure that stuff travels by internet and radio, not by sea.
25/10/2012 11:27:17 PM
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It is sociological, political, and religous, it does not have to make logical sense. *NM*
29/10/2012 02:26:43 PM
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If Romney wants to be president, he should make sense, particularly when arguing a cause for war.
29/10/2012 06:46:06 PM
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Obama trounced him but he was always going to and by this point nobody cares anymore
23/10/2012 12:58:12 PM
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The election is a tossup. Could really go either way at this point. *NM*
23/10/2012 11:06:39 PM
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inexplicably a tossup. normally the proven liar (romney) would have no chance
23/10/2012 11:36:16 PM
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Pointing to one side of a political debate/campaign and yelling LIAR is the definition of hypocrisy. *NM*
25/10/2012 09:59:08 PM
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well then prove to us mitt romney is not a liar and i will retract my statements *NM*
25/10/2012 10:32:18 PM
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