Active Users:198 Time:18/05/2024 11:20:22 AM
Yes, practically... I wouldn't mind you lecturing me on my own field if you got the stuff right Isaac Send a noteboard - 07/12/2012 04:19:29 AM
There's thing in here you're simply overlooking from lack of familiarity, the 25,000 gigatons of atmosphere Mars has versus our own five million makes it pretty redundant what the current make up is, the existing atmosphere is effectively nil from our standpoint.

Also you can not simply assume a land ratio of 100:28 means you need 28% of the air, that's not how it works, if you want land people can walk on you need a pressure of 14 psi, and that means pounds of air, not mass. So in reality the 5E15 tons of air is accurate if its weight not mass, the mass you need is adjused then for the difference in gravity and kicks up to 13 million or 28% thereof for 4.7 million gigatons. For equal pressure, Mars with it's mere 28% of Earth land surface needs over 95% of it's atmospheric mass. You get that from a lot of comets or you get that by baking the ground for oxygen and CO2 that can be turned to oxygen through classic plant biochemistry.

Now greenhouse domes is one option, and a more probable one if you feel there's enough native nitrogen, oxygen and hydrogen. Even in that variation though you are using mirrors and lenses to bake oxygen rich minerals for their oxygen and/or carbon dioxide. But you're now limited to -barring fusion or von Neumann machines - slowly leaking gas out of the domes as you make it inside them by baking the stuff out of the soil through solar power which is noticeably weaker on Mars. Nuking the place isn't presented as the best option merely one that does produces a very rapid effect. Several megaton nukes accomplishes that same goal very quickly and with material we can economically move to mars, a single nuke would probably have about a total effective cargo mass as a person since no food or air or such need travel with it. Christ knows the mass on dome parts for even a single acre and I'd be willing to bet a couple hundred acres of dome wouldn't accomplish the goal in even geological timespans. Doesn't mean I'd do it that way but it's a realistic option and you shouldn't be knocking Sagan for suggesting it. You can nuke the fucker then build domes, easier if there's already some pressure on the outside.

Now getting back to the moon, I am not and never was worried about the contaminants as I said right form the outset, I was explaining that the dust would land all over the moon. From a scientific standpoint that's crappy because the moon is our best source of geological data for the solar system, especially before we went their, that's the 'problem' form the scientific standpoint, you couldn't isolate such a blast and you'd get a thin layer over every damn thing which while not really a big deal to us now would have been - before collecting samples - the equivalent of someone offering a forensic scientist to go in and clean the crime site in advance with bleach.

Mars would be a different story entirely, you're not talking about setting off a handful of nukes. You're probably talking about needing the equivalent of a ton of explosives to get a ton of air, or in that general magnitude, so if want 5 million gigatons of atmosphere you need to deploy around that in nukes... some high hundred of millions megatons of explosive, or low billions, maybe even double digits. Hence entire planetary supply of nukes presumably re-calibrated as super-high yield H-bombs, all Castle Bravo on crack. Hence why I did use the term 'irriadiating' when I brought up Mars. Odds are that sheer amount of detonation would have so much dust in the air that the heavier elements, the left over fissile material, would be buried in several feet of dust and if it's all plutonium, half life of a thousand years, it wouldn't be too big a deal in the medium long term.

Now as to that last bit about shooting nuclear waste into the Sun, that's just never made sense ever, I don't even know why that keeps going around.
The intuitive mind is a sacred gift and the rational mind is a faithful servant. We have created a society that honors the servant and has forgotten the gift.
- Albert Einstein

King of Cairhien 20-7-2
Chancellor of the Landsraad, Archduke of Is'Mod
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Carl Sagan Advised US Defense Department to Win the Space Race by Nuking the Moon - 02/12/2012 05:04:40 PM 697 Views
Way to jump the shark, Carl. *NM* - 02/12/2012 06:48:30 PM 152 Views
Agreed - 06/12/2012 12:17:16 AM 436 Views
Mars can retain Oxygen just fine, and this isn't exactly new - 03/12/2012 12:25:14 AM 361 Views
It does not seem to be doing a very good job of it; Mars' atmosphere is ~0.1% O2. - 06/12/2012 12:16:16 AM 420 Views
There's a difference between retaining added and not having any - 06/12/2012 01:44:56 AM 322 Views
Not practically. - 07/12/2012 02:27:02 AM 928 Views
Yes, practically... I wouldn't mind you lecturing me on my own field if you got the stuff right - 07/12/2012 04:19:29 AM 450 Views
Am I missing something? - 03/12/2012 08:18:25 PM 477 Views
Perhaps Sagans subsequent suggestion we nuke Mars to make it habitable. - 05/12/2012 11:00:08 PM 437 Views
Re: Journalists - 05/12/2012 11:27:10 PM 460 Views

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