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Home defense is an entirely separate situation than an aggressor losing a fight Jay Sherman Send a noteboard - 12/07/2013 10:13:42 PM

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A punches B
B beats up A
A ceases fighting
B does not stop
by not stopping B has become the aggressor
A can now attempt a self-defense justification on lethal force to stop B's assault.

-This does not absolve A of the initial criminal assault however, there is simply now 2 criminal assaults that have occurred; one by A and one by B.

It is a legal parallel to the person who defends his home or family or business from an intruder. If you break into my house and I let you have it with both barrels of Ole Betsy, then I am legally justified. However, if I reload and then shoot you again while you are down, I have committed murder (that is why having a large capacity magazine is great, no reload window).

There have been some criminal cases of this nature, and many civil ones.


For legal justification of self-defense, the defender -- in the example we've been debating, person A after the tables have turned on them in a fight -- must have either attempted to remove themselves from the situation and been prevented from doing so, or felt they had no other option other than to respond with deadly force. If A initiates contact, that removes the idea that A had no other option but deadly force. You cannot start a fight, lose that fight badly, and then justifiably kill the other person. Again, I ask you to cite any case you can find where this exact scenario occurred and I will cede the point to you. As I understand the law, though, your scenario is not justifiable homicide no matter how you look at it.

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Looks like Zimmerman is going to be acquitted..... - 09/07/2013 08:54:18 PM 1180 Views
I've figured this since the first week of testamony - 09/07/2013 09:06:59 PM 818 Views
I'm not sure someone being punished excessively is a good reason to mimic it - 09/07/2013 10:26:51 PM 582 Views
Excellent response, you covered everything I would have wanted to. *NM* - 10/07/2013 06:48:15 PM 286 Views
Thanks *NM* - 11/07/2013 01:35:15 AM 234 Views
Nutty reply by you as usual.....but..... - 09/07/2013 10:36:45 PM 651 Views
coming from your side of the aisle, I take that as a compliment. :-) - 11/07/2013 12:18:07 AM 791 Views
All right, let's talk about Yoda, this so-called 'wise' Jedi Grandmaster - 11/07/2013 01:34:57 AM 539 Views
Yep that Yoda. - 11/07/2013 02:26:03 AM 689 Views
It is a time-honoured US criminal justice tradition after all - 10/07/2013 10:06:35 PM 507 Views
The prosecution has been terrible in this case. It reminds me of the OJ prosecution. - 10/07/2013 10:58:50 PM 520 Views
When one person is on top of another beating him up..... - 11/07/2013 04:22:02 AM 584 Views
As a person who has been trying not to follow the case - 11/07/2013 04:07:01 PM 588 Views
Yeah, but you are forgetting something rather important - 11/07/2013 06:41:54 PM 609 Views
I am sorry but that is not quite true - 11/07/2013 07:10:19 PM 613 Views
Go review the timeline it is available online. *NM* - 11/07/2013 07:22:43 PM 227 Views
I am having a hard time believing that you can justifiably kill in a fight you started and lost - 11/07/2013 09:51:00 PM 495 Views
It is a tough legal argument but it can occur. - 12/07/2013 01:24:11 AM 520 Views
Home defense is an entirely separate situation than an aggressor losing a fight - 12/07/2013 10:13:42 PM 572 Views
There is no call for self-defense for a fight you initiated yourself - 11/07/2013 06:34:46 PM 591 Views
Once again, following someone doesn't justify assault. - 11/07/2013 07:34:09 PM 485 Views
Thank god the perpetrator got shot - 11/07/2013 07:48:12 PM 536 Views
And once again, when did Zimmerman identify himself as the neighbourhood watchman? - 11/07/2013 08:59:28 PM 574 Views
He was under no legal obligation to do so. - 12/07/2013 01:39:45 AM 547 Views
He was also under no legal obligation to follow Martin, despite being neighbourhood watchman - 12/07/2013 05:15:00 PM 696 Views
Except that there is exactly zero evidence to support your scenario. - 12/07/2013 06:00:05 PM 608 Views
If you don't care one way or the other, why are you arguing so strongly for acquittal? - 12/07/2013 10:06:00 PM 530 Views
You covered several areas... - 12/07/2013 11:28:18 PM 552 Views
A couple of points... - 13/07/2013 12:15:47 AM 605 Views
I have to disagree about the manslaughter - 13/07/2013 12:45:32 AM 487 Views

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