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Home defense is an entirely separate situation than an aggressor losing a fight Jay Sherman Send a noteboard - 12/07/2013 10:13:42 PM

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A punches B
B beats up A
A ceases fighting
B does not stop
by not stopping B has become the aggressor
A can now attempt a self-defense justification on lethal force to stop B's assault.

-This does not absolve A of the initial criminal assault however, there is simply now 2 criminal assaults that have occurred; one by A and one by B.

It is a legal parallel to the person who defends his home or family or business from an intruder. If you break into my house and I let you have it with both barrels of Ole Betsy, then I am legally justified. However, if I reload and then shoot you again while you are down, I have committed murder (that is why having a large capacity magazine is great, no reload window).

There have been some criminal cases of this nature, and many civil ones.


For legal justification of self-defense, the defender -- in the example we've been debating, person A after the tables have turned on them in a fight -- must have either attempted to remove themselves from the situation and been prevented from doing so, or felt they had no other option other than to respond with deadly force. If A initiates contact, that removes the idea that A had no other option but deadly force. You cannot start a fight, lose that fight badly, and then justifiably kill the other person. Again, I ask you to cite any case you can find where this exact scenario occurred and I will cede the point to you. As I understand the law, though, your scenario is not justifiable homicide no matter how you look at it.

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Looks like Zimmerman is going to be acquitted..... Anonymous2000 - 09/07/2013 08:54:18 PM 1182 Views
I've figured this since the first week of testamony imlad - 09/07/2013 09:06:59 PM 823 Views
I'm not sure someone being punished excessively is a good reason to mimic it Isaac - 09/07/2013 10:26:51 PM 586 Views
Excellent response, you covered everything I would have wanted to. *NM* A Deathwatch Guard - 10/07/2013 06:48:15 PM 289 Views
Thanks *NM* Isaac - 11/07/2013 01:35:15 AM 238 Views
Nutty reply by you as usual.....but..... Anonymous2000 - 09/07/2013 10:36:45 PM 656 Views
coming from your side of the aisle, I take that as a compliment. :-) imlad - 11/07/2013 12:18:07 AM 796 Views
All right, let's talk about Yoda, this so-called 'wise' Jedi Grandmaster Isaac - 11/07/2013 01:34:57 AM 542 Views
Yep that Yoda. ranagrande - 11/07/2013 02:26:03 AM 692 Views
It is a time-honoured US criminal justice tradition after all Jay Sherman - 10/07/2013 10:06:35 PM 511 Views
The prosecution has been terrible in this case. It reminds me of the OJ prosecution. Tom - 10/07/2013 10:58:50 PM 527 Views
Re: The prosecution has been terrible in this case. It reminds me of the OJ prosecution. imlad - 11/07/2013 12:20:39 AM 663 Views
When one person is on top of another beating him up..... Anonymous2000 - 11/07/2013 04:22:02 AM 587 Views
As a person who has been trying not to follow the case Roland00 - 11/07/2013 04:07:01 PM 591 Views
Yeah, but you are forgetting something rather important HyogaRott - 11/07/2013 06:41:54 PM 612 Views
I am sorry but that is not quite true Roland00 - 11/07/2013 07:10:19 PM 618 Views
Go review the timeline it is available online. *NM* HyogaRott - 11/07/2013 07:22:43 PM 230 Views
I am having a hard time believing that you can justifiably kill in a fight you started and lost Jay Sherman - 11/07/2013 09:51:00 PM 499 Views
It is a tough legal argument but it can occur. HyogaRott - 12/07/2013 01:24:11 AM 523 Views
Home defense is an entirely separate situation than an aggressor losing a fight Jay Sherman - 12/07/2013 10:13:42 PM 576 Views
It really isn't too hard to find, if you bother to look. HyogaRott - 12/07/2013 11:41:35 PM 1025 Views
I understand the theory, and military court is not quite the same as common law, yes? Jay Sherman - 12/07/2013 11:52:54 PM 580 Views
MIlitary courts are also based on common law, just shifted for military realities HyogaRott - 12/07/2013 11:59:24 PM 593 Views
Re: MIlitary courts are also based on common law, just shifted for military realities Jay Sherman - 13/07/2013 12:21:06 AM 597 Views
I will stipulate to everything you just said, but disagree with your conclusion. HyogaRott - 13/07/2013 12:58:10 AM 576 Views
Stumbled accross the actual Florida statute that explicitly covers what I described. HyogaRott - 15/07/2013 04:28:06 PM 867 Views
There is no call for self-defense for a fight you initiated yourself Jay Sherman - 11/07/2013 06:34:46 PM 598 Views
Once again, following someone doesn't justify assault. Anonymous2000 - 11/07/2013 07:34:09 PM 488 Views
Thank god the perpetrator got shot Roland00 - 11/07/2013 07:48:12 PM 539 Views
And once again, when did Zimmerman identify himself as the neighbourhood watchman? Jay Sherman - 11/07/2013 08:59:28 PM 577 Views
He was under no legal obligation to do so. HyogaRott - 12/07/2013 01:39:45 AM 551 Views
He was also under no legal obligation to follow Martin, despite being neighbourhood watchman Jay Sherman - 12/07/2013 05:15:00 PM 699 Views
Except that there is exactly zero evidence to support your scenario. HyogaRott - 12/07/2013 06:00:05 PM 611 Views
If you don't care one way or the other, why are you arguing so strongly for acquittal? Jay Sherman - 12/07/2013 10:06:00 PM 534 Views
You covered several areas... HyogaRott - 12/07/2013 11:28:18 PM 556 Views
A couple of points... Jay Sherman - 13/07/2013 12:15:47 AM 608 Views
I have to disagree about the manslaughter HyogaRott - 13/07/2013 12:45:32 AM 491 Views
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