Active Users:171 Time:18/05/2024 09:40:36 PM
It's a combination of even more guns in circulation and no duty to retreat if you feel threatened Jay Sherman Send a noteboard - 18/07/2013 09:13:47 PM

View original post
Eric Holder, whose idiocy and blatant partisanship is making me reminiscent of Ashcroft & Reno and their ilk, apparently decided to lash out at the stand-your-ground laws in a speech to the NCAA, in reference to the death of Trayvon Martin. While we can be pretty sure which side Holder & the NCAA come down on in that case, how can they be upset about those laws? The justification for BOTH parties is based on that law! According to Martin's advocates, he stood his ground when confronted by a nosy profiler, and was merely defending himself, and his only crime was having the audacity to win a fist fight. In fact, stand-your-ground makes more sense for Martin than for Zimmerman, it being notoriously hard to retreat when a larger man is on top of you. Having the upper hand in the physical confrontation, on the other hand, is generally considered to be the appropriate position from which to call a peaceful halt to the proceedings. But under the principles protected by stand-your-ground, Martin was under no obligation to back off or kowtow to some guy who initiated the confrontation by accosting him.

Of course there are those who might contend that either party retreating (fleeing like a little bitch) would have been the better outcome and that Martin's death is a result of one or both men electing to stand his ground in a state which protected their legal rights to do so, but such people are little bitches whose possessions and women we can take at our leisure and their point of view need not be considered. In all seriousness though, stand-your-ground is the counter to things like Jim Crow. The opposite worked so well at Munich, after all...


As much as I detest Eric Holder's reign as USAG, he's not far off that the apparent ease with which an average citizen in Florida can get both a gun and a concealed weapon permit is troubling when the law allows for you to "stand your ground" if/when you feel threatened. This creates a situation where any potential stranger can have a gun on their person and therefore are a potential threat to your right to exist peaceably. Once you feel threatened, you have no duty to retreat if you think that person will act violently towards you. As pointed out in the other thread, we already have pretty robust self-defense laws on the books, to many people putting SYG laws on top of them creates a more violent situation than before.

Where the NAACP (not the NCAA) comes into it: Blacks are disproportionately incarcerated and convicted in Florida, in many cases because of the assumption that most black people are automatically criminals first and humans a distant second. There is also the matter that, after Trayvon Martin was shot and killed, the usual pro-gun groups did not immediately jump to his defense and insist that he could have avoided being killed if he had only had a gun. This gives the impression that everyone but black people have a right to carry a gun for protection, something that SYG exacerbates in their (Holder and the NAACP) view of the situation.

Reply to message
Okay, how can you use the Trayvon Martin case AGAINST the stand-your-ground laws? - 17/07/2013 10:15:55 PM 948 Views
You forgot to mention that Zimmerman didn't actaully use a stand your ground defense *NM* - 18/07/2013 02:03:51 AM 309 Views
the judge included it in the instructions to the jury - 19/07/2013 04:37:43 AM 507 Views
I love the let me say my piece then end the convesation tactic - 19/07/2013 11:50:02 AM 491 Views
Sources - 19/07/2013 12:35:39 PM 620 Views
so she did - 19/07/2013 01:08:08 PM 478 Views
um, when did the collegiate sports organization get involved in politics? - 18/07/2013 08:17:24 PM 846 Views
I imagine he meant to type NAACP. *NM* - 18/07/2013 08:25:26 PM 253 Views
It's a combination of even more guns in circulation and no duty to retreat if you feel threatened - 18/07/2013 09:13:47 PM 472 Views
blacks are incarcerated at a higher rate because they commit crime at a higher rate - 19/07/2013 04:31:06 AM 502 Views
[citation needed] - 19/07/2013 06:12:04 PM 442 Views
Don't be tedious, such a claim is unprovable but also the most logical inference - 19/07/2013 07:10:22 PM 500 Views
If logic says so, then obviously that must be the only course of action possible.... - 19/07/2013 07:44:44 PM 570 Views
Um, how'd you get that out of my remarks? - 19/07/2013 08:48:09 PM 466 Views
Honestly, I feel like we are getting into some dangerous territory here - 24/07/2013 06:25:15 PM 546 Views
I wonder what we can call the racism version of Godwinning. - 24/07/2013 07:01:20 PM 474 Views
Reductio ad Racism maybe? *NM* - 24/07/2013 08:16:28 PM 220 Views
We? I don't feel I'm in dangerous territory at all - 24/07/2013 08:10:24 PM 415 Views
lets look at your numbers becuase they are interesting - 20/07/2013 03:25:31 PM 465 Views

Reply to Message