I've explained where I'm deriving this from, if you don't see it I'm not sure...
Isaac Send a noteboard - 25/02/2010 03:06:53 PM
... how else to demonstrate it. That he took potshots at both side s is not so really bipartisan either, it just comes off as grumbling, and I really don't think I'm operating in a vacuum on this. There are dozens of articles out now saying similar things, I liked the one from the Economist earlier this week "All this makes his sudden recasting as a Senate reformer a bit suspect. It's not clear whether Mr Bayh holds these views deeply, or whether they are post facto rationalisations of an emotional decision to quit."
Let me not cite such examples as proof I'm right, just that there is clearly some basis for where I'm getting my points on this.
I tend to find his posts refreshing, I often disagree with them, but there's a full-blown vent backed by logic not typically found in most people's rants that often appeals to me. There always do seem to have a core point to me.
No, Bayh is definitely not a partisan hack. However, he, like a lot of centrists senators, often tries for this 'above the fray' appearance which under the microscope seems less bipartisan than 'what am I bid?'. His article, to me, seems more like self-adulation then a well meant attempt to fix things, if the latter were the case, stay in, fight for re-election, keep pounding 'work together', there are plenty of centrists on both sides the overwhelm a filibuster or threaten to kill a vote they think isn't bipartisan enough. They're all jumping ship and it's hard for me to accept these snow white motives they keep claiming.
If he'd limited to just saying we could use a more bipartisan atmosphere I would have agreed or at least had no real objections.
It's when he started getting into specifics, he spent 4 paragraphs, roughly a quarter of the article, complaining about the results of SCOTUS's ruling, while he himself has an 11 million dollar campaign war chest. This is a strong GOP issue, he did not attack the dems in any similar fashion and degree, everything else was 'both sides' except again for the quarter or so devoted to talking about how awful a long-standing core issue of the GOP is. How is this not throwing a rock?
If it's invisible to you, I can't help that, it wasn't to me, and it wasn't to a lot of other people. IF we're wrong, we're wrong, but I've outlined the parts we see as this, so 'invisible' is not the right word, you just don't think that what it was, but you're forcing me to take a strong stance on an article that meant little to me other than to spark some resentment and merit a quick agreement to Cannoli, which you asked me to expound on. As I've said, I do not view this article as some massive hit piece on the GOP, just that it smacks of hypocrisy and an attempt to rise above the fray that high-lit that he wasn't above the fray and maybe has the wrong attitude and reasons for attempting to rise above. The voice of moderation is often laudable, and sometimes it's just vain and disconnected, nobody need to get between the Axis and the Allies and tell them to work together and 'rise above their common differences'. You asked me to go into details, I did so, saying at the time that it was a rush job, just giving my impressions, then my follow up was similarly condensed. Now you're telling me I'm feeling this way over nothing, and I simply don't see that. My take remains the same, Bayh has retired for personal reasons, and like many people making a hard decision, he has engaged in some rationalizing that is not entirely consistent or friendly toward his former coworkers. It isn't a flamethrower piece, but it has all the flavor of someone who quit because he looked like he might get fired and only now sees a lot of the nasty things that went on at his workplace.
Let me not cite such examples as proof I'm right, just that there is clearly some basis for where I'm getting my points on this.
And I think if you claim Cannoli's post had a "core point", you're giving it more credit than it deserved.
I tend to find his posts refreshing, I often disagree with them, but there's a full-blown vent backed by logic not typically found in most people's rants that often appeals to me. There always do seem to have a core point to me.
There aren't any potshots at the right in this article, Bayh goes out of his way to stress that both parties are guilty. The timing makes it look self-serving, yeah, and maybe it was even meant to be self-serving, but like I said, just because he's hypocritical doesn't mean he isn't right. And Bayh does have a reputation for moderation and bipartisanship, as far as I'm aware, so it's not like this is some partisan Pelosi-like politician trying to gain points by paying lip service to bipartisanship after not having done anything of the sort in office.
No, Bayh is definitely not a partisan hack. However, he, like a lot of centrists senators, often tries for this 'above the fray' appearance which under the microscope seems less bipartisan than 'what am I bid?'. His article, to me, seems more like self-adulation then a well meant attempt to fix things, if the latter were the case, stay in, fight for re-election, keep pounding 'work together', there are plenty of centrists on both sides the overwhelm a filibuster or threaten to kill a vote they think isn't bipartisan enough. They're all jumping ship and it's hard for me to accept these snow white motives they keep claiming.
Like I said, I don't see it. The only part of your objection to his tone that made sense to me was the objection to the title, and just in general the fact that he says those things now at the end of his Senate career in which he has been guilty at least to some extent of the things he complains about. But now you're saying that if he had kept this article more limited, you would have agreed... so I don't get you at all, now.
If he'd limited to just saying we could use a more bipartisan atmosphere I would have agreed or at least had no real objections.
It's when he started getting into specifics, he spent 4 paragraphs, roughly a quarter of the article, complaining about the results of SCOTUS's ruling, while he himself has an 11 million dollar campaign war chest. This is a strong GOP issue, he did not attack the dems in any similar fashion and degree, everything else was 'both sides' except again for the quarter or so devoted to talking about how awful a long-standing core issue of the GOP is. How is this not throwing a rock?
In any case, I think I made clear in my previous reply what the important points on this topic are for me, and that there are Republicans who agree on those, so it's not just Bayh and it's not just this article with the apparently invisibly offensive tone.
If it's invisible to you, I can't help that, it wasn't to me, and it wasn't to a lot of other people. IF we're wrong, we're wrong, but I've outlined the parts we see as this, so 'invisible' is not the right word, you just don't think that what it was, but you're forcing me to take a strong stance on an article that meant little to me other than to spark some resentment and merit a quick agreement to Cannoli, which you asked me to expound on. As I've said, I do not view this article as some massive hit piece on the GOP, just that it smacks of hypocrisy and an attempt to rise above the fray that high-lit that he wasn't above the fray and maybe has the wrong attitude and reasons for attempting to rise above. The voice of moderation is often laudable, and sometimes it's just vain and disconnected, nobody need to get between the Axis and the Allies and tell them to work together and 'rise above their common differences'. You asked me to go into details, I did so, saying at the time that it was a rush job, just giving my impressions, then my follow up was similarly condensed. Now you're telling me I'm feeling this way over nothing, and I simply don't see that. My take remains the same, Bayh has retired for personal reasons, and like many people making a hard decision, he has engaged in some rationalizing that is not entirely consistent or friendly toward his former coworkers. It isn't a flamethrower piece, but it has all the flavor of someone who quit because he looked like he might get fired and only now sees a lot of the nasty things that went on at his workplace.
The intuitive mind is a sacred gift and the rational mind is a faithful servant. We have created a society that honors the servant and has forgotten the gift.
- Albert Einstein
King of Cairhien 20-7-2
Chancellor of the Landsraad, Archduke of Is'Mod
- Albert Einstein
King of Cairhien 20-7-2
Chancellor of the Landsraad, Archduke of Is'Mod
"Why I'm Leaving the Senate" - Evan Bayh on the state of the US Senate
- 24/02/2010 10:10:55 AM
598 Views
Most of us like Evan
- 24/02/2010 01:13:34 PM
251 Views
"Why I'm Glad to See You Go" by a citizen and taxpayer
- 24/02/2010 05:10:40 PM
412 Views
+1 *NM*
- 24/02/2010 06:31:46 PM
84 Views
You cannot be serious. Might I ask you to write an actual reply? I'd like to hear your thoughts. *NM*
- 24/02/2010 09:20:49 PM
91 Views
All right, it will have to be a condensed version though
- 24/02/2010 10:57:50 PM
245 Views
Only you could call that condensed.
- 25/02/2010 01:34:50 AM
213 Views
- 25/02/2010 01:34:50 AM
213 Views
Condensed in topic
I'll try for brevity this time
- 25/02/2010 04:45:38 AM
231 Views
I'll try for brevity this time
- 25/02/2010 04:45:38 AM
231 Views
I really don't see how you can read that tone into it, because it just isn't there.
- 25/02/2010 10:27:10 AM
208 Views
I've explained where I'm deriving this from, if you don't see it I'm not sure...
- 25/02/2010 03:06:53 PM
222 Views
You know, you really need to stop that habit of replying to every single paragraph.
- 24/02/2010 10:07:10 PM
268 Views
Re: You know, you really need to stop that habit of replying to every single paragraph.
- 25/02/2010 05:47:02 PM
251 Views
Okay, I get that you're strongly libertarian and want far smaller government.
- 25/02/2010 06:56:34 PM
231 Views
And not 1 mention of term-limits
*NM*
- 24/02/2010 07:33:47 PM
86 Views
We have this thing called "a ballot box." Why shouldn't directly elected legislators be re-eligible? *NM*
- 25/02/2010 05:50:31 PM
94 Views
Well I rather liked it.
- 24/02/2010 11:30:08 PM
209 Views
