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I'd like to thank everyone who replied to get the folder on fire. It adds a je ne sais quoi to it. *NM* Tom Send a noteboard - 19/12/2017 05:10:02 PM

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I say this not because he, like the popes before him, in his arrogance and presumption has forsaken his rightful place as primus inter pares among the leaders of the Church and usurped the authority that can only belong to duly assembled Ecumenical Councils. I say this not even because he has espoused heretical opinions in the past, most notably flirting with the anti-Christian doctrine of Liberation Theology. Now he seeks to alter the very words of Christ Himself.

Pope Francis has called for a translation of a phrase about temptation in the Lord's Prayer to be changed.

The current wording that says "lead us not into temptation" is not a good translation because God does not lead humans to sin, he says.
His suggestion is to use "do not let us fall into temptation" instead, he told Italian TV on Wednesday night.

The Lord's Prayer is the best-known prayer in Christianity.

The pontiff said France's Roman Catholic Church was now using the new wording "do not let us fall into temptation" as an alternative, and something similar should be used worldwide.

"Do not let me fall into temptation because it is I who fall, it is not God who throws me into temptation and then sees how I fell," he told TV2000, an Italian Catholic TV channel.

"A father does not do that, a father helps you to get up immediately."

It is a translation from the Latin Vulgate, a 4th-Century Latin translation of the Bible, which itself was translated from ancient Greek, Hebrew and Aramaic.

Ok, I hate the article I cited. First, the New Testament was originally written in Greek. There is speculation about an Aramaic original text but it was never found. The Old Testament was originally in Hebrew and Aramaic, but the New Testament exists originally in Greek.

However, the original text says very clearly "lead us not into temptation":

καὶ μὴ εἰσενέγκῃς ἡμᾶς εἰς πειρασμόν (Mt 6:13, Lk 11:4)

et ne inducas nos in tentationem (Vulgate)

Just to be thorough, I also looked in the Syriac Peshitta, which is Aramaic and exhibits some variants that might betray some sources originally in Aramaic. The verb is "to lead".

Francis clearly now seeks to alter perhaps the most fundamental words of Christ. He should be pronounced a heretic and demand must be made that he repent immediately. If he fails to repent, he should be taken into St. Peter's Square and burned with no hope of salvation in this life or the next.



Political correctness is the pettiest form of casuistry.

ἡ δὲ κἀκ τριῶν τρυπημάτων ἐργαζομένη ἐνεκάλει τῇ φύσει, δυσφορουμένη, ὅτι δὴ μὴ καὶ τοὺς τιτθοὺς αὐτῇ εὐρύτερον ἢ νῦν εἰσι τρυπώη, ὅπως καὶ ἄλλην ἐνταῦθα μίξιν ἐπιτεχνᾶσθαι δυνατὴ εἴη. – Procopius

Ummaka qinnassa nīk!

*MySmiley*
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Pope Francis must be declared a heretic and burned. - 09/12/2017 03:14:16 AM 1413 Views
Oooh, theodicy. - 09/12/2017 03:28:21 AM 555 Views
Well, God "hardened Pharaoh's heart" a couple of times. *NM* - 10/12/2017 09:22:05 AM 297 Views
That’s a much better song too *NM* - 10/12/2017 02:05:04 PM 368 Views
That was just so he could murder all their sons and prove he is awesome. - 11/12/2017 09:24:16 PM 564 Views
Revelation 22:18, 19 - 09/12/2017 07:02:55 PM 477 Views
Does it have to be fire? I do not like the smell of burnt human flesh. Is it okay with the council - 09/12/2017 11:55:31 PM 422 Views
Only fire can purify the stain of heresy. *NM* - 10/12/2017 01:21:58 AM 386 Views
We have to burn you for blasphemy by comparing Francis to Christ - 10/12/2017 02:04:04 PM 462 Views
I just find this deeply ironic that is all *NM* - 10/12/2017 08:35:26 PM 328 Views
I'll search for an Italian transcript later, but... - 10/12/2017 03:10:06 PM 652 Views
It's not subjunctive per se. It's a negative imperative, damnit. - 11/12/2017 02:11:53 AM 469 Views
I hadn't seen this post before I posted... - 11/12/2017 04:46:07 AM 467 Views
It's been 23 years since my last Latin class - 11/12/2017 04:48:54 AM 598 Views
My mother and a family friend priest drove by today... - 11/12/2017 04:38:49 AM 480 Views
The vicar of Christ doesn't get to change the words of Christ. - 11/12/2017 08:12:22 AM 551 Views
Fair enough. *NM* - 11/12/2017 05:44:46 PM 288 Views
but he is infallible ???? - 11/12/2017 09:22:02 PM 477 Views
The Pope is only infallible in certain situations. - 11/12/2017 10:40:28 PM 486 Views
Link not working for you? *NM* - 12/12/2017 12:44:23 AM 332 Views
I mean...I love me some theology... - 11/12/2017 10:56:34 PM 530 Views
The problem is that I don't think he was thinking at all - 13/12/2017 06:22:14 PM 424 Views
No arguments here - 12/12/2017 03:51:59 PM 489 Views
Can't you just depose him. - 13/12/2017 05:49:59 PM 431 Views
I could, but where's the fun in that? - 13/12/2017 06:20:18 PM 519 Views
Because he would have to live with being deposed. - 13/12/2017 07:05:35 PM 430 Views
As Stalin said, Нет человека, нет проблемы - 13/12/2017 09:06:44 PM 456 Views
How about we just send him to Avignon. - 13/12/2017 11:31:25 PM 470 Views
If we send him in a soundproof box so all he can do is waive endlessly, sure! - 14/12/2017 12:32:04 AM 500 Views
Schrodinger's Pope(s)? *NM* - 15/12/2017 10:01:35 PM 277 Views
Waive endlessly? - 18/12/2017 03:06:39 AM 611 Views
It's the consequence of writing this in between contract revisions - 18/12/2017 02:52:15 PM 668 Views
I've had that happen before, minus the contract legalese - 20/12/2017 03:43:50 AM 469 Views
music to burn heretics by... - 13/12/2017 10:44:51 PM 584 Views
That is truly obscure - 14/12/2017 12:39:43 AM 445 Views
It could be worse, my favorite 2 christmas albums are - 14/12/2017 03:25:38 AM 465 Views
Sounds like your father was a wise man *NM* - 14/12/2017 12:54:20 PM 296 Views
And he's still going nearly 50 years later... - 16/12/2017 02:32:41 PM 1121 Views
That’s amazing. He’s still crazy. *NM* - 16/12/2017 03:31:36 PM 259 Views
Agreed. *NM* - 01/01/2018 01:59:14 PM 825 Views
I'd like to thank everyone who replied to get the folder on fire. It adds a je ne sais quoi to it. *NM* - 19/12/2017 05:10:02 PM 270 Views

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