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Re: I don't know if that's the right comparison though. Cannoli Send a noteboard - 26/11/2018 10:35:51 PM

I'm not sure where you get the idea that Sindarin evolved to one point and stopped. The word for sun, for instance, is different in Quenya and Sindarin, which makes perfect sense, since they had no contact during the first sunrise.

And once the Noldor did come, Sindarin certainly got a bunch of loan words, which were adapted to fit Sindarin, but share more roots with Quenya. And the Noldor themselves picked up Sindarin, which would have also added to the change. I do not think the idea of a done and dusted Sindarin existing at some point makes sense.

Well, no. But those are all factors that should bring the languages closer together. Unless you mean the Sindar that was universally adopted in Beleriand in responses to Thingol's decree is not the Sindarin in use during the War of the Ring? That actually makes a lot more sense.

Whyever not? The Dwarves of Belegost built Thingol's capital in Menegroth, and some even lived there in an embassy. It makes no sense that all this was achieved via sign language or something, so clearly, there must have been linguistic influence both ways, though if I remember right, the Elves were unable to pick up Dwarven.
That's the point, it was under specific circumstances that they met, and the Dwarves spoke in their language, so the Elves had no reason to change or adapt. Their was no linguistic intercourse. I could see the Dwarves bringing home some Sindarin influences on their own tongue, but since the Elves only kept using their own speech, there was no reason to change it.
We might not know much about immortals, but in Tolkien, they are pretty much in stasis over the years, only changing in response to certain events or knowledge.

This just isn't true.
I don't really see these guys changing much. They're still themselves in events centuries apart. Saruman changes because he is influenced by his hunt for the Ring. Thingol gets more hostile when the Noldor come and when he learns about the Kinslaying. He softens his human policy after Beren. He gets possessive when he accepts the Nauglamir from Hurin (and thus possibly partakes of Morgoth's curse). It's like you can point to a specific thing that informs each new personality trait. I mean, sure, the format doesn't lend itself to these sorts of details, but the guy who fights the first battle of Beleriand doesn't seem too different from the guy who came out of the woods with Maia bride.


Uhh... this is utter nonsense. Language can change without your regard for bloodkin. You do not need a fundamental personality shift for language to change. We cycle through new words and phrases all the time without suddenly finding ourselves not caring for friends or family, and we only live for 80-100 years.

The family stuff just suggests that his mind doesn't change, he doesn't forget or grow away from who he was when he and Olwe were together. If his awareness isn't fading or changing priorities, it seems to me that his language wouldn't either. Language and thought are linked. To me, the strong connection to Olwe's grandchildren suggests he has not evolved or moved on from his state of mind since Olwe was a part of his life.

Cannoli
“Tolerance is the virtue of the man without convictions.” GK Chesteron
Inde muagdhe Aes Sedai misain ye!
Deus Vult!
*MySmiley*
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