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Can't you reply to paragraphs correctly? Having to search for which part is yours is confusing. Legolas Send a noteboard - 25/09/2020 07:55:03 PM

View original postThe jurisprudence on state level gun control laws (which are going to be a big motivator to replace RBG with a conservative justice) show otherwise. As, honestly, does Bush v. Gore. Conservative justices are as susceptible to letting their biases dictate outcomes in cases at the State level as the liberals.

That would be because the US constitution does actually have some things to say about the right to bear arms. Conservative justices surely have their biases, but generally they stick with the actual constitution as it's written, or laws as they are written. It doesn't say anything about what they'd do with state laws on a topic like abortion.
View original postI get that the conservative rhetoric is about limiting Federal overreach, but that's not really the practice.

Seems to me it mostly is - limiting overreach both from the federal government and from the liberal justices on their own court.
View original postWhatever not? Once the federal protection of Roe is removed, what's to stop Republicans in Virginia and Colorado and Illinois from challenging those state laws that permit abortion, and what's stopping the Conservatives from striking down those laws when the case comes to the Supreme Court?

The lack of relevant passages in the constitution? The conservative justices aren't Trump or McConnell - they actually take their jobs seriously and are familiar with the concepts of intellectual honesty and consistency.
View original postYou seem to think the chief conservative issue with Roe is that it didn't respect the pastiche of state laws. But this chief issue is with the fact that it legalized abortion. And give the effort to specifically make sure the Justices in the Supreme Court they add are pro-life, what's your basis for assuming their pro-life stance won't guide them on cases about state level abortion laws?

No, I think their issue is that it very creatively interpreted the constitution in order to legalize something controversial. And sure, they are far more upset about Roe v Wade than about Obergefell v Hodges or other cases where the thing legalized by the decision was (or at least is by now) much less controversial than abortion. But the basic legal objection is still the same. And they need legal objections, not moral ones, to reach decisions or overturn old decisions.
View original postAnd what about a federal law allowing abortion? Let's say the Dems pass one. You think this bench will not overturn it?

Not if it doesn't otherwise violate the constitution, no.
View original postNo. This is just needed because in the very short term, you're going to need stuff like climate legislation which cannot wait for longer term protects to improve the fundamental structure of American democracy. To protect that legislation, you need a court not unfairly stacked against the liberal majority. But by no means is it going to fix everything, or work long term.

Even so, when the Republicans recapture the Senate majority and then cancel out, undo or just repeat whatever the Democrats did so as to gain back the balance of power in the SC, you'll lose whatever you just gained and probably more.
View original postThat sounds nice, but legislatures in general have no shown themselves to be amenable to fact based deliberation. Certainly, the United States Congress has not.

Which is why I'm sceptical about the long term prospects of the United States, unless it can somehow turn a corner in that regard. But it's still better than having such big decisions made by nine or however many justices.
View original postYou're making the assumption, again, that a legislative right to abortion will not be challenged by this Court. What's your evidence for that?

Uh, see, from where I'm standing you're the one who's making up this scare story about how a conservative majority would arbitrarily start striking down validly passed abortion laws... so you're definitely the one who should be bringing evidence for that.
View original postYeah it's a perspective thing. I don't think legislative rights expansion has a great track record in multi-ethnic democracies. The US court isn't even as activist as India's, and given the millions of people who'd be suffering various harms but for these courts expanding their rights, I think I'll stick my hopes in what has shown practical ability to help, rather than a utopian vision of legislators looking at facts and respecting all citizens equally.

And your idea that packing the court will somehow resolve all of America's issues and the Republicans will magically fail to regain power and retaliate isn't utopian? Having a sympathetic SC by legitimate means which conservatives couldn't argue with (especially considering how many of the liberal justices were nominated by Republican presidents) has been helpful, yes - but this kind of schemes would make it an entirely different ball-game.
View original postThere's nothing particularly twisted or selective in the way the Supreme Court interprets the constitution in most cases. And in cases where it has, it's usually a reflection of gridlock in the legislatures preventing any forward movement despite there being majority support for such an expansion of rights. Till you do something like introduce ranked choice voting/multi-member districts, remove gerrymandering by a constitutional amendment guaranteeing a right to vote, etc, the Supreme Court is the only way through the legislative logjam.

Well, it's about to stop being the only way through, I guess.
View original postAny belief that these states will permanently elect Democrats is ridiculous anyway. It's not like the GOP and the Democratic party are static. If these states send 4 senators to Congress, long-term the GOP will start looking at ways to win some of those seats.

View original postThe good thing is, by being more Democratic, it allows these people's political views to shape the GOP. That's why this is the right thing to do.

Agreed.
View original postStop right there. What Democratic majority? Roe enjoys majority support in pretty much every poll. Contraception and abortion rights are not minority support positions in the country. Opposition to them is, and the GOP stacked court is a way to lock in those minority positions.

Democratic majorities in red states. I'm not worried, nor am I aware of American observers being worried, about reproductive rights in blue states. In battleground states it might become quite messy.

On the national level, yes, there is a majority in favour, but this is the kind of thing that's normally reserved to the individual states, as you can see from the abortion-related cases that have been decided by the SC since Roe.


View original postOf course it is. You either have the right to decide whether you want to carry a fetus, or you don't. What's the intermediate?

So you really want to claim that an abortion at thirty weeks is just the same as an abortion at six weeks, do you? It's not black and white, no country in the world has legislation that gives a blanket permission to abortion whenever for whatever reason, and rightly so (though sadly there are some that do outlaw it at any time and for any reason). It's a question of finding a reasonable compromise, which may be different in each country that has legalized the practice. Roe v Wade, being a court decision based on far-fetched interpretations of fundamental rights, makes it more difficult to reach a reasonable compromise, or at least, forces such compromises to be made through the courts, like Casey v Planned Parenthood, which is very cumbersome.
View original postAgain, you're assuming Roe is the only thing threatened by a GOP majority in the Supreme Court. That's far from true.

I'm not assuming anything of the sort, but it is the big thing that most people on both sides focus on.
View original postI'm saying that redirecting them to another issue isn't hard, and we've seen proof of that.

I haven't seen any proof of any other issue having even remotely the same importance for them as abortion.
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Can't you reply to paragraphs correctly? Having to search for which part is yours is confusing. - 25/09/2020 07:55:03 PM 133 Views
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