Active Users:856 Time:08/02/2026 10:19:57 AM
I'd saved it for later. Half way through it now... fionwe1987 Send a noteboard - 20/07/2022 07:40:48 PM

View original post
It's depressing. I've linked it below. It's a long read but very good.

A well put together birds eye view of what led to Jan 6 and continues to animate the Republican Party.

I have a question for you, but I want to make clear I'm not trying to enforce guilt or anything. I'm wondering how one deals with earthshattering blows to one's worldview. If we ever want to break this logjam, one side or the other is going to produce many humans who are suddenly going to awaken to how wrong their side was. So, with that in mind, my question:

If you agree with the broad thrust of the article, it does seem clear that a lot of the elements at play on Jan 6 had seeds sowed as far back as the Bush v Gore election. A lot of this was encouraged, more often blindly rather than with sinister motive, though not always, by the Republican elite and leadership.

And by now, the many puntings and cowerings from the GOP leadership about Trump over the years are legend. The way they've weaseled themselves into whatever influence and power they can wield through Trump is nauseating.

Both the GOP and the Dems need to learn from this, of course. The Democratic party isn't particularly structured to weather a cancer like Trump, but the very broad coalition holding the Dems together is their secret strength. The truly insane element is never able to gather sufficient support, so the folks who'd do the liberal version of the powerful oligarchic non-democratic Republic that the John Birch folks want... those guys don't rise to power, much. Certainly not to the point they can coalesce into a voting bloc in both Houses of Congress. Despite that, there's no reason for the Dems to not pay attention.

But on the flip side, I see no indication that a large enough portion of the GOP leadership has any interest in reckoning with Trump. If you know of a concrete movement that's having any success, I'd like to hear it.

The only solution I'm seeing is Dems boosting folks like Cheney and Murkowski, and in exchange, those folks boost Democrats in Purple states, and hopefully the weight of what almost happened and what actually can happen vote the against their instinct and work first to shore up democracy.

I don't care if this coalition agrees on barely anything. I don't want them to merge into one party at all. I'd rather go back to hating Chaney and sneering in contempt at Collins, while the reverse would hold against corresponding Democrats, but we'd all at least agree that there are limits to where we'll take the fight.


Do you see any other way to actually break through?


My opinion on this? There were two Presidential elections in my lifetime that were both so close, and beset by questions about irregularities, that the National Committees of the losing sides begged the candidates to contest the results. But both Richard Nixon and Al Gore refused to do so. Both stated that the consequences to the country of undermining faith in the election process were far worse than accepting defeat.

That's because both men understood the concept of legacy. Add Hilary Clinton to that list, btw. She so very easily could have refused to concede with plenty of facts to make herself feel good about it, but she didn't. I can fully believe that given who had won, she'd have far more ability to feel morally justified than the other two would have in deciding to break with tradition.

Trump has no such conception of legacy or memory. He is about exploiting the present to maximize his sense of worth. He cannot be a looser. Better to try bully the world into walking back your defeat by throwing a big enough tantrum.

Reply to message
Prosecute Trump? - 14/07/2022 09:18:24 PM 746 Views
I would be surprised, but not shocked if there was an indictment. - 14/07/2022 09:26:45 PM 385 Views
There is no way he's not running again in 2024. - 14/07/2022 09:45:28 PM 492 Views
There's no way he agrees to not run - 14/07/2022 09:46:55 PM 373 Views
I fear you are right. - 14/07/2022 10:17:40 PM 376 Views
Let me sum up the case. - 14/07/2022 09:44:20 PM 436 Views
Word vomit that is completely false and full of irrelevant asides is not a summary - 14/07/2022 09:57:30 PM 399 Views
Lol parody account, you live in a dream world. - 15/07/2022 02:20:09 PM 391 Views
Sure - 15/07/2022 02:48:19 PM 423 Views
Parody account: face reality edition - 15/07/2022 03:09:48 PM 405 Views
Broken record. Try another track. - 15/07/2022 09:59:22 PM 363 Views
Take your own advice, parody account - 16/07/2022 02:17:34 AM 373 Views
The Secret Service deleted texts from 6th Jan..now I wonder why... - 19/07/2022 08:20:26 PM 400 Views
As part of a device replacement program. - 19/07/2022 10:12:31 PM 410 Views
It's like you're on a sugar high - 20/07/2022 04:50:29 AM 410 Views
This is an excellent point. - 20/07/2022 05:05:27 AM 374 Views
Thanks! - 20/07/2022 07:42:09 PM 396 Views
Re: It's like you're on a sugar high - 21/07/2022 02:32:47 PM 403 Views
Take your own advice, parody account - 16/07/2022 02:17:34 AM 390 Views
Ugh - 14/07/2022 10:21:00 PM 377 Views
It's Trump's party, like it or not. - 15/07/2022 02:12:02 PM 429 Views
No. It isn't. - 15/07/2022 05:04:36 PM 383 Views
LOL okay. - 15/07/2022 09:10:36 PM 399 Views
You are missing the entire fucking point. - 16/07/2022 12:53:59 AM 408 Views
No, you are. - 16/07/2022 02:13:57 AM 375 Views
As will the fact that being Italian born and living in Canada means you have no dog in this hunt. *NM* - 16/07/2022 02:40:09 AM 208 Views
Live in the US now son. - 16/07/2022 01:42:41 PM 380 Views
Agreed with Dragonsoul - 16/07/2022 07:39:57 PM 382 Views
Re: Agreed with Dragonsoul - 17/07/2022 05:43:21 AM 414 Views
Re: Agreed with Dragonsoul - 17/07/2022 05:43:23 AM 375 Views
That's not entirely fair - 15/07/2022 01:10:25 PM 363 Views
Yeah, it's a tough one. - 14/07/2022 10:22:06 PM 425 Views
Yeah exactly - 15/07/2022 12:12:19 AM 392 Views
Why are they calling it an insurrection, not a riot ? - 15/07/2022 09:43:09 AM 383 Views
Because there was a plan of action and they're laying out that evidence. - 15/07/2022 02:41:42 PM 389 Views
Regarding the elections... - 15/07/2022 07:28:07 PM 437 Views
as always, - 15/07/2022 08:34:45 PM 386 Views
Voter ID - 15/07/2022 10:10:24 PM 420 Views
- 16/07/2022 12:32:06 AM 418 Views
Oh please! - 16/07/2022 01:16:43 AM 396 Views
Ha! - 16/07/2022 01:51:08 AM 382 Views
I think what separates us is less policy than belief in the health of the Republican Party - 19/07/2022 03:44:01 PM 423 Views
Have you read the "Stop the Steal" article from the NYT magazine? - 19/07/2022 06:57:24 PM 378 Views
I'd saved it for later. Half way through it now... - 20/07/2022 07:40:48 PM 377 Views
I derive some comfort from the fact that I have never voted for Trump. - 21/07/2022 08:57:33 PM 375 Views
You think Trump should have been removed from office over Ukraine? - 21/07/2022 02:44:40 PM 376 Views
I share your concerns around indicting Trump - 21/07/2022 08:44:20 PM 354 Views
To Go Baroque here - 15/07/2022 07:32:27 PM 392 Views
One last thing - 15/07/2022 07:38:04 PM 363 Views

Reply to Message