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House of the Dragon has an explanation of sorts, I gather. Legolas Send a noteboard - 03/09/2022 10:57:35 PM

It's specifically the Velaryon family, not the Targaryens themselves, who are black. While the Velaryons are also Valyrian and share the genetic tendency for white hair and purple eyes, the showrunners decided to make them black as they have always been a seafaring, exploring family and hence could plausibly have some black ancestors. Their skin colour isn't actually mentioned in the books, but apparently Martin did have the idea of actually making them black at one point in the writing process when the Velaryons were intended to have a significantly larger role, so when the showrunner heard that, he considered it a good enough cover for actually doing so on the show. Fair enough, I think.


View original postI suppose that Wheel of Time , Rings of Power and House of the Dragon are indicative of a new trend in entertainment pursuant to which from now on, every scene in every television show or movie is going to need to look like the United Colors of Benetton™.

View original postThere’s nothing wrong about trying to create roles for black (or Hispanic, or Asian, or whatever other group is perceived to have been underrepresented) actors and actresses in genres that traditionally don’t make room for them, but the way that it’s done is really just shitting all over the audience. The creators’ desire to signal their virtue is greater than any attempt at preserving the integrity of the finished product.

I don't disagree - on WoT and RoP anyway. That black actor playing a Harfoot commented “They have no trouble believing in a dragon, but they do have trouble believing … a black person could be a hobbit or an elf.” That's an understandable enough reaction on his part, but it's not showing much sympathy, respect or understanding of fantasy fans. Some part of the backlash may come from actual racists, but plenty of fans just figure like you do that in any fantasy work, there is an internal logic to be respected and if you want to use more actors of colour, you can at least try to do it in a way that makes sense in the world in question. Or just pick source material that was more minority-friendly to begin with - such as Sandman, where their more inclusive casting decisions make perfect sense within the context.
View original postYes, it’s fantasy. It’s already asking us to believe that there are wizards and dragons and magic rings. However, in the case of The Lord of the Rings, the author of the series recognized that these things are fantastic, and so in order to help the reader suspend his disbelief the author created a rich and internally consistent history for his fantasy world. The languages follow linguistic laws in their evolution, and provide place names that relate to one another in ways that make them sound “real”.

Exactly.
View original postIt's clear that Robert Jordan’s world is the product of someone who read “Fantasy Worldbuilding for Dummies” by contrast, but even so, he gave it a cursory try. He created a world that had some internally consistent facts even if his “language” was piss-poor and many of the facets of his world didn’t seem well thought out. Georgerr Martin falls somewhere in the middle, not as bad as Jordan but nowhere near as good as Tolkien (both in writing quality and with respect to world building).

Having recently reread WoT, my opinion of RJ's writing quality has indeed decreased a bit (though for the most part he's still better than Sanderson), but I thought his worldbuilding held up pretty well. Of course you can always find points to criticize, but it's very ambitious worldbuilding and it largely works. The most obvious weaknesses coming to mind are ones that many other fantasy writers including Tolkien have as well, like the way most nations have very few if any major cities other than their comparatively huge capital, with suspiciously large armies relative to the population their country can plausibly have.
View original postSo why the necessity of creating these multiracial communities with no explanation? Why doesn’t everyone have a similar skin tone in a pre-industrial, somewhat isolated community? That would make sense. Explain it for God’s sake if you’re going to insist on having these magically colorblind multiracial communities. I would have more respect for a Wheel of Time adaptation that had everyone in Emond’s Field black and Rand a white ginger guy (though imagine the comic effect of a black Tam al’Thor saying, “Rand, you aren’t my biological son” and Rand being shocked, à la Steve Martin in “The Jerk” – “you mean I’m not black?”).

Fair.
View original postIt's just lazy and vomitously politically correct at the same time. All of these worlds detail dozens of different cultures, and in each case major characters can hail from those cultures. So why the necessity of a white-haired black Targaryen (talking about “purity of the blood”, no less!), or a supposedly isolated community looking like the United Colors of Benetton™? Why is a small, tight-knit community of “Harfoots” radically mixed, racially speaking?

There's another race-related issue in fantasy that seems to be mostly ignored in these debates, which is that in most fantasy series, the different races / cultures are far more internally homogeneous than in the real world: virtually everyone from a certain race/culture shares its typical characteristics in terms of behaviour and interests, with only vanishingly few if any exceptions proving the rule. In Tolkien's case of course there is the fact that Elves, Dwarves, Hobbits, Men, Orcs are different species more than they are different races, so it's more plausible for him - in the interactions between different human cultures, he doesn't really have that problem. But in WoT and many other series, it's pretty noticeable.

In adaptations, such aspects tend to get toned down or removed entirely because it clashes with modern audiences' viewpoints, for us nowadays it seems like a rather 19th century view of the world. Arguably that's a bigger change than the skin colour thing, but nobody's ever complaining about that, which is interesting.

View original postThe Tolkien prequel could have had a major plot line in Far Harad (ruled by Queen Beruthiel). This would be internally consistent with Tolkien’s world and provided major roles for non-white actors and actresses. Jordan’s world has tons of major roles for non-white characters; as I recall the Princess of Seanchan was black, and having a black Siuan Sanche was in keeping with the geographic realities (such as they were) of the world. Having Emond’s Field an interracial paradise was not. Georgerr Martin’s world already had some major roles for non-white actors in the main series and there was no reason that the new series couldn’t incorporate people from those cultures into the main story.

Yeah. Even when it comes to black Elves and Dwarves, those aren't present in Tolkien's texts but they could've winged something based on those Elven/Dwarven communities which are hinted to exist in unknown parts of Middle Earth - but just doing it without explanation is weird. And as I recall, Hobbits are supposed to descend from Men originally, so the lone black Harfoot could be some remote descendant of a lone Haradrim wanderer who somehow ended up procreating with a Harfoot, then his remote ancestor's black skin manifested in him due to some weird genetic quirk, but it's a stretch for sure.


View original postIf they really, really want and need to die on that hill, at least explain it. Address the elephant in the room. Are you trying to tell me that in a viciously cutthroat and ambitious world like Westeros no one is going to even mention “hey, the Lord of the Ships is black as a Summer Isles guy”? Especially when no one else in all of Westeros is apparently black? Seriously?

See above, there is an explanation in that case, though apparently it's not made clear in the show itself.
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I guess every TV series from now on will show wildly multiracial groups with no explanation - 03/09/2022 03:37:31 PM 253 Views
Welcome to Woke-Hollywood..... - 03/09/2022 07:46:14 PM 108 Views
Also they might be revealing more than they want to signal - 03/09/2022 08:45:12 PM 118 Views
House of the Dragon has an explanation of sorts, I gather. - 03/09/2022 10:57:35 PM 118 Views
The Velaryon family being black is fine..... - 04/09/2022 04:22:42 AM 103 Views
Why? *NM* - 04/09/2022 05:57:45 AM 45 Views
Re: House of the Dragon has an explanation of sorts, I gather. - 08/09/2022 11:56:55 AM 98 Views
You do know we know the actors for the Strong boys? - 08/09/2022 05:39:17 PM 69 Views
Yeah, they don't look much like Velaryons - 08/09/2022 07:57:40 PM 87 Views
Yes for it is Posh *NM* - 04/09/2022 12:32:21 AM 39 Views

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