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House of the Dragon episode 8 Cannoli Send a noteboard - 10/10/2022 02:47:59 PM

4:36 So we have a time jump, very conveniently named as six years by Rhaenys. I thought it was Rhaenyra at first, because the recasting keeps throwing me off.

5:00 Baela (or Rhaena) does not look good with that wig.

5:50 There are plenty of places to cite feminism in this work, you don’t need the gratuitous implicit criticism of the question of succession by having Unknown Twin snap “My grandmother (is doing fine on the Driftwood Throne).” She’s not an heir, she’s a spouse, and the show has already established in the case of Daemon, that a spouse does not inherit a title.

And they are saying Lucerys Velaryon is the heir to Corlys, which is the long-term plan, but shouldn’t it be Jace, until he takes the throne and has to pass it Driftmark along to his younger brother?

6:04 Even if one acknowledges that Luke is not really Corlys’ grandson, his brother is not the closest kin he has left, when his granddaughter is right there in front of him. Whatever the issues with women taking the Iron Throne, again, in the case of Daemon’s wife Rhea Royce, we have been shown on this very show, that women can inherit and rule as nobles.

And it’s not treason to argue about the inheritance of a lordship. Treason is against a sovereign state or head thereof.

6:10 Oh wait, saying Luke is not Corlys’ descendant is implicitly criticizing Rhaenyra, and Viserys has decreed no further discussion of that topic. So it’s using a treasonous statement to make a non-treasonous case.

7:00 The interesting thing here is that the Wokes are now motivated to support Vaemond’s position, despite all the icky primogeniture and control of women’s bodies issues involved with that, because a black guy’s rightful inheritance is being stolen by a bunch of deceitful white people.

7:15 He must mean Alicent is ruling in all but name as Viserys’ health goes.

8:04 Who is our intrepid rock climber?

8:55 Daemon gathering eggs.

10:09 I suppose Aegon’s Conquest is as good a subject as any, but why is that the story used to teach High Valyrian? Caesar’s book about the Gallic Wars was written in Latin, because that’s what he spoke. Why bother translating the story of Aegon’s Conquest into a foreign language, when, as a living, and currently spoke tongue, there are going to be tons of works out there to use?

Also, note that Rhaenyra is willing to let Jace off easy, but Jace is determined to buckle down and do what he is supposed to.

10:33 Based on book knowledge, Jace deposing his own mother would not be the worst idea anyone in Westeros has ever had.

10:46 Is he pregnant with Viserys or the doomed daughter? If the latter, things are coming to a head.

11:44 So that was Baela with Rhaenys.

12:24 It would probably make a better statement to come to King’s Landing on dragon-back, to both highlight the whole Targaryen superiority thing especially as that is a relative weakness of the Hightowers, plus, having the dragons present is kind of an implicit threat in its own right.

And while Alicent’s children have dragons, that’s just another reason to bring your own.

12:46 I don’t usually notice camerawork and stuff like that, but these angles are making the Red Keep seem more imposing, so that Daemon and Rhaenyra don’t appear to be going home so much as entering an enemy’s lair.

15:48 That was a smooth way to introduce the concept of the Cargyle twins.

21:00 Aegon is not a good dude, apparently.

29:59 That was a Hightower sigil on the breastplate of the guard leading in Vaemond. Kind of suggests some alignment issues going on.

They’re doing a good job setting everything up, but I feel like it’s all just to shock us when Viserys suddenly steps up and lays down the law. Like the whole episode is going to be all about the dominance of Alicent and Otto, especially after her smug little smirk on parting with Rhaenyra, only to flip at the end. They are also seeming to go out of their way to make the Greens unlikeable, between Aegon’s rape propensity, and Alicent’s ruthlessness is suppressing the scandal, despite her own feelings on the matter, and the fact that she’s clearly overstepping herself in substituting for her husband. And Aemond comes across as a douche just with the one line.

30:25 The other point is Corlys. At first, they could be talking about Viserys with “he could live” in other words, to intervene on behalf of Rhaenyra, but then the pan to Vaemond reminds us that Corlys’ life is in the balance too, and that the Hightowers could rule in favor of Vaemond, swiping the wealth and power of House Velaryon out from under the Blacks, only for Corlys to recover, object and basically bring half, if not more, of the lords of Westeros to their feet at the tyranny of the Hightowers for depriving a lord of his rights to pass along his property to his own heirs.

31:45 No one can doubt that Rhaena is Corlys’ grandchild. She has the same yarn-hair thing going on. IDK which looks more fake, the yarn hair or that thin stuff of Baela’s.

33:00 It’s a funny thing about lying, because we know Rhaenyra is utterly sincere here, and telling the factual truth, but because of the big lie with her children, Rhaenys is not inclined to believe her. It’s like she is picking up on the sincerity, and looks down to see her former daughter-in-law pregnant with yet another kid by another man and remembers who she is talking to.

33:44 This is very satisfying personally, because that was always my headcanon for the betrothals of Daemon’s daughters to Rhaenyra’s sons, that is was done to appease the Velaryons and ensure that the great-grandchildren would inherit the family name and carry on the bloodlines with them, in spite of Rhaenyra’s usurpation of the former from the latter with her affair with Harwin.

It does not make a tremendous amount of sense to take four marriages off the table that way. All four kids’ weddings could be used to gain allies for their cause, instead of marrying back into a House already on their side.

34:19 This is very weird considering Rhaenys’ fate in the actual story.

35:48 In this shot, Rhaenya actually looks like Milly Alcock. I never saw a resemblance before.

38:48 Viserys refusing the milk of the poppy and the highlighting of this aspect of his treatment might actually be used to resonate with the one admirable moment of Aegon in the books, where he was similarly being kept insensible after injuries.

41:42 Uh oh, kids, dad’s home and some of you are in trouble.

42:00 Yeah, Alicent looks scared shitless.

42:33 The mask is creepy. I think it’s supposed to be reminding us of the Crabfeeder.

43:17 And give them credit, Daemon & Rhaenyra look more concerned, for all that this is a win for them.

43:45 Symbolism!

44:00 And he’ll accept help from Daemon where he won’t from his Kingsguard.

45:18 If I was Vaemond, I would be very worried about that look Rhaenys just gave him. For all her animus toward Rhaenyra, I think she’s smart enough to see which way the wind is blowing (fitting for a scion of the House Vaemond claims rules the sky and wed to the House that rules the sea) and take the deal the princess offered her.

45:57 At least the girls don’t look unhappy about the marriages.

46:03 And Aegon really doesn’t give a shit about politics, he’s just enjoying the mischief.

46:05 “The matter is settled. Again.” For all his infirmity and seeming to be out of it, Viserys always demonstrates on this show that he really is plugged in to what is going on, and if he does not always make the most politically astute or just choice, he is consistent in his desires and his agenda to maintain his family to the best of his ability.

46:28 Shoulda taken the L, Vaemond.

46:40 Yes, exactly Vaemon. Viserys does not care about tradition and male-line succession, he recognizes the right of a man to name his own heir. He did it with Rhaenyra, and he is supporting the right of Corlys to do so as well.

47:26 It’s worth mentioning that Corlys is not merely the steward of House Velaryon’s power and wealth, he is the author of it all. Vaemond might have a point about the name and bloodline, but he is merely second son to a House with rather small holdings, and his brother is the one who earned all his wealth, and built High Tide and Spice Town.

47:43 Rhaenys just explained that the line is not ending. Luke is going to have a wife who popped out of Vaemond’s niece’s womb.

48:23 THAT was fun. Also, it spares Viserys the ugliness of actually ordering the tongue removal as he did in the books (actually, I believe Daemon or Rhaenyra killed Vaemond, and his side of the family went to the king to object and he had their tongues removed). Whereas the show seems to be trying to soften Viserys’ image and make him a more decent, if misguided, person. And tearing somone’s tongue out for saying something true, however embarrassing is never a good look.

48:52 Yeah, no. You’ve screwed things up big time, Viserys. There is really no putting any of this right, without steps you are clearly not prepared to take.

If he wants to stop the war, the best thing is probably to announce Aegon as his successor while making amble provision for Rhaenyra and her kids to keep her quiet and happy and ensure she won’t be taken out by the Hightowers to get rid of a rival claim. But whatever doubts Rhaenyra expressed at his sickbed, I don’t think Daemon, or for that matter, Rhaenys, now that she has committed to the Blacks with a Queenship for her granddaughter & ward as her price, will sit back and let their family be marginalized. So that’s probably a hopeless cause.

If he wants a successful transition to Queen Rhaenyra, he needs to move on that now. Otto is out, and banished from court. Make Rhaenyra or Daemon Hand of the King (actually Corlys would be the better choice, but his viability is up in the air at the moment), keep Rhaenyra close and involve her in the ruling of the realm, even having her sub in when he is too sick, as Alicent has been doing to date. Give Aegon & Helaena a nice holding somewhere that is comfortable and safe and not a source of power, strongly encourage Aemond to think about using Vhagar to protect the Wall, and put Alicent in a convent (and actually the Wall and a convent are the best things to do with Aegon & Helaena, but that’s a massively OoC dick move when Viserys is largely responsible for their current problematic position as threats to his chosen heir). Preferably one on Dragonstone or Driftmark or somewhere under the guardianship of Rhaenyra’s partisans. Start packing the Small Council with lords who support Rhaenyra’s claim, or who backed Rhaenys’ line at the Great Council, like the Starks and Baratheons.

But he’s not going to do that, because Viserys wants to keep all of his family close and happy, and never mind that it’s his actions that render that happiness impossible.

49:06 Nice image there, Alicent above, but Rhaenyra in front.

52:10 I wonder what the deal is with Alicent’s religious turn, which is original. Maybe embracing it out of a crisis of conscience, or perhaps she’s trying to get the Faith on Team Green?

53:12 I kind of feel like using the table to push yourself to your feet is the better option. They always make people lean on canes to get up in TV shows and movies, but in my experience with a cane after knee surgery, they are awfully wobbly. When you are sitting at a good solid table, it’s much easier to push yourself up that way and then grab the cane.

55:26 As the books said, love is the bane of duty. Viserys loves everyone involved too much to do the right thing for the realm.

55:34 And that little look from Alicent suggests she’s actually moved by his speech. Whereas in the books, she comes across a lot less sympathetically, and it was typically the Blacks who were more willing to play nice. Such as Jace asking Helaena to dance at this very occasion, and Aegon taking offense.

59:50 This is well done, too. On the surface, Jace is playing his part, reaching out, being nice to Helaena, but also Aegon’s behavior has given him ample motivation for doing it as a dig to him, too. And thus Aegon’s umbrage is more understandable than simple offense at a bastard’s presumption.

59:55 Okay, but the dance choreographer is still the worst creative person involved in this whole show (ironically, along with the author, since “Fire & Blood”, the source material, is far from George RR Martin’s best work).

1:00:44 As if the incest doesn’t make Targaryen family gatherings weird enough, these inter-generational unions and second marriages don’t help. Rhaenyra’s daughters-in-law-to-be are also her stepdaughters, her nieces by marriage and her first cousins.

1:03:25 And that gives a sense of how Alicent’s sons are really entitled bullies. Jace at least confronted a bigger, stronger man and a formidable warrior, while Aegon just takes the opportunity to slam a kid’s face down. And then Daemon stepping between shows Aemond isn’t quite as eager to tangle with a proven man as he is to slap down a teenager after words he was not bold enough to say in his father’s presence.

1:03:35 Now this, I think, is Alicent being sincere. And also Rhaenyra making a mistake. Maybe it’s best for family harmony, but that’s not how you maintain your position as heir, especially when it looks like you could be due for the throne at any moment. On the other hand, getting her visually troublesome sons out of sight of the court might be a good idea until her seat on the Iron Throne is secure.

I am also wondering if Alicent is just being nice, or trying to ingratiate herself with the apparently ascendant Rhaenyra.

1:07:00 Okay, Aegon’s dream is a dumb addition, because the actions of the Targaryens, even the ones between him and Viserys, don’t support the idea that this is what they have been working towards since conquering the Seven Kingdoms. It’s also dumb on the show, because the Targaryen scions were rather peripheral to the defeat of the “White Walkers.” If Aegon saw what is going to happen in “The Long Night” his best move would be to fly to Winterfell and swear fealty to House Stark and place his family’s dragons at their disposal.

But that stuff does not really matter as they have been using it so far on HotD, as an additional motivating factor for Viserys and Rhaenyra beyond their own selfishness and desire to see her succeed him to the throne. And now it will be interesting to see how Alicent reacts to this revelation. Will she learn the truth of the prophecy and how it is motivating Rhaenyra and Viserys? A significant issue in her decision to turn against Rhaenyra and promote her son as the heir has been the danger Rhaenyra’s claim creates for them. But if she knows Rhaenyra is not operating solely out of ambition, she has less motive to kill her half-siblings. On the other hand, if she believes herself duty bound to hold onto the throne no matter, in order to save humanity, she could regard the sacrifice of Alicent’s children to secure her rule a necessary duty, regardless of how well Alicent and Rhaenyra repair their relationship.

Another possibility, is that Alicent does not realize Viserys is talking to Rhaenyra and takes these words as meant for her, and that he actually wishes their children to succeed instead of Rhaenyra.

1:08:00 Why do they keep making such a big deal about that dagger? From the shape, I assume it is going to be the same one that is used to almost kill Bran and eventually end up in Arya’s hands to kill Littlefinger, and IIRC, the “Night King.” So are they reminding us of how the prophecy was actually fulfilled, in contrast to Viserys’ beliefs? Or is it just supposed to be a sinister image and maybe a reminder that it was most recently used by Alicent against Rhaenyra?

1:08:42 According to the captions, Viserys stopped breathing.

I think I’ve basically said everything. This was almost kind of a filler episode. If they’re going to kill off Viserys in the same episode where they stamp hard on the Strong bastard issue, that really didn’t have much purpose beyond introducing us to the adult and near-adult versions of Rhaenyra’s & Alicent’s children.

Is anyone else concerned that with 8 episodes aired, we have not seen a single scene from the opening credits of Rick and Morty this season?

Cannoli
“Tolerance is the virtue of the man without convictions.” GK Chesteron
Inde muagdhe Aes Sedai misain ye!
Deus Vult!
*MySmiley*
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House of the Dragon episode 8 - 10/10/2022 02:47:59 PM 304 Views
One the best episodes of TV ever made..... - 10/10/2022 05:00:06 PM 101 Views
It's slow and boring - 11/10/2022 02:37:36 PM 93 Views

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