Active Users:158 Time:19/07/2024 03:23:46 PM
Season 2 Episode 5 Cannoli Send a noteboard - 16/09/2023 07:22:43 AM

00:15 Hoo boy, the Previous On segment is recalling the Ways, and Valda.

01:10 Return of the Orc Ships! The demonizing of the Seanchan for their misogyny begins!

1:30 They had a tower there by the water. Assuming this is Falme, that is the sort of detail that isn’t immediately what a reader might recall, but it was a bit of backstory for the place. The people not involved with the scripts often do good work on this show.

2:13 Another accurate detail. Ish. It’s not actually accurate, but it seems at least intended to convey the social significance of a Seanchan noble using direct speech vs having their so’jihn speak for them. As soon as Alwhin started talking I felt a sigh coming on, only for Turak’s so’jihn to salvage it. It’s the sort of thing that would not have actually happened, as Suroth should already know better than to pull that kind of crap, but for expository purposes, it’s not bad, and it’s showing instead of telling, which has been depressingly rare so far.

04:07 That was all relatively well-done, with the power dynamics and the whole sei’moisev concept being, again, shown, instead of told. With the mask, Suroth should already have been in trouble, but perhaps that was strike one and the nails are strike two. Also, checking with Ishamael before kneeling, and Ishamael isn’t going to exert himself on her behalf unless it’s useful to him. I’m not sure about the music, but it does help with an atmosphere of being in a foreign society.

Don’t think I haven’t missed the bit about them being on a mission from the Light, though.

6:07 They had a sword handy and could have cut off her head. If a slit throat will barely slow her down, having to get her head off the roof of the house should slow her a lot more. They can do smart, we saw in the last scene, but every time they try to make someone look badass, they just make them look stupid.

6:41 “Bitch” joins “bastard” as pejorative terminology that appears on the show and never in the books, because of the feminist implications.

8:10 See what I mean about shooting for badass, and hiting stupid? There is this concept called “remounts”. The smart thing to do is take ALL the horses in case something goes wrong with one, or at the very least, you can rotate to rest one mount at a time. How do we know that resurrecting a horse isn’t in the Forsaken’s repertoire?

Also, anyone with half a brain would have had the horses already commandeered as an escape route ahead of time. Moiraine came prepared to find a Forsaken. She clearly did not do any detective work before striking. Given how far she had to come, it’s unlikely that this was a moment-to-moment situation, so having a better escape plan is smarter than getting to Rand as fast as possible. It’s a much lesser gamble that Lanfear would not do anything irreparable to Rand in the minutes it would take Moiraine to secure the horses, and commandeer the stablewoman to hold them out of sight of the cabin, than that everything would have gone perfectly as it did and their escape would not have been stymied by the time needed to procure the horses in their flight. Moiraine clearly had no idea how many horses were in the barn, which means she could not have known their condition or anything else. At best, she noted the location of the stable and the telltale noise of occupants and conceived of the idea of fleeing in that direction.

It should be noted that ITB, Nynaeve did a much better job of adjusting to the need for transportation to fit altered circumstances, on the fly, on her first ever op, when they rescued Perrin & Egwene from the Children of the Light.

And the knife would work just as well to cut the horse’s throat, if there actually was a reason to do so, and actually probably better, unless you are experienced in handling the sword, since you have more control with the shorter blade. That was just to make Moiraine seem cool.

8:22 If this camera is panning to find Lanfear cursing her lack of a mount…

8:35 Of course, we need to have her verbally acknowledge Moiraine’s brilliance.

8:45 LOL. You suck Moiraine. Did you forget that stables are places to which people BRING horses?

8:57 She is living in Cairhien and knows the geography well enough to get to a cabin in the mountains, but she is unaware that the local road goes to the largest city in the known world? Also, the nearest city. Recall that in tGH, after failing to access the Ways through the Gates in Cairhien itself and nearby Stedding Tsofu, Verin says that the next closest Waygate is the one in Tar Valon. This is something they didn’t even need the maps for, if they had just been skimming the book for vague ideas to allude to in their script.

Is a different person writing the scenes in Falme that the one writing Cairhien?

10:31 I noticed the Seanchan using the word “slave” and I let it pass, because it’s easier than teaching the audience about da’covale. But now Elyas has used the term, and Perrin did not question it. People ITB did not even understand the concept. “Not even” a Brown sister can explain what is meant by the Aiel selling Cairhienin who enter the Three-Fold Land as animals in Shara, and Morgase is appalled when she realized the implications of the term da’covale ( “owned one” ). World-building fail. Maybe the writer is like that show my students told me about, where there is the girl who is a regular girl by day and a star musician by night – maybe they are only competent at writing scenes set in daylight? He or she or it (that’s too long, it needs a contraction. How about h’or’sh’it? ) could maybe work for Lucasfilm and write Jedi TV shows at night and Andor during the day. Or maybe with Lucasfilm it’s Tatooine. A show sucks if Tatooine appears and is good if not.

Also, Microsoft Word knows the correct spelling of Tatooine. It also recognizes Andor as a word, but it’s possible I beat that one into it years ago.

10:52 I don’t know if the arrival of the wolves is supposed to be threatening, the music feels like they are trying to elevate the tension, but their feet making those little noises sounds like babies running and completely undermines it. And you can dub in all the growling noises you want, but they don’t angry or tense at all. Dogs hate me. I know what an angry or suspicious dog looks like, and these guys just look curious.

12:01 Ha! Stupid Lanfear doesn’t realize Moiraine has a tell and completely missed their trail.


Moriaine’s plan was initially, to outrun Lanfear, and now appears that her plan was to pretend to head for Tar Valon, then get off to the side of the road and wait for Lanfear to pass them up, then go another way. So what was the plan if someone had not happened by with a horse, to allow Lanfear to follow them and lose her so soon? Keeping three people and horse quiet in the bush for as long as it takes someone to walk past and out of earshot is a lot trickier than the time it takes them to ride by, fast, with their mount’s noises helping obscure your own sounds.

It looks to me like Moiraine’s plan was to coast on plot armor and attribute it to cunning.

12:07 She’s not even out of sight and they are standing right in the middle of the road. Nice. It’s not Obi-Wan’s leg hanging out of his hiding place when stormtroopers are still in the shot, but come on!

12:57 Moiraine, I’ve met the Forsaken. Or at least read about them. All of them being free is not nearly the problem for the Light you seem to think it is. Calm down.

13:08 Another favorite means of inflating the appearance of your favorite character is to give her the last word in any discussion, and the other characters not raise objections they, or anyone else in their shoes, damn well would. Not of the Emond’s fielders over the age of 18 would have let Moiraine’s dialogue in this scene pass without pointing out that it was her plan that got Ishamael free, and her insistence on taking them to the Eye of the World played right into the Shadow’s hands.

13:54 Perrin, it’s the town where the Seanchan captured you and your friends. Would that not be a good place to start looking for them? They might not leave tells like Aes Sedai, but they were dragging a huge-ass chair. They are probably leaving footprints.

14:16 Why would Hopper give a shit about Uno being left unburied, and why would this divert Perrin from his need to find his living friends? Properly handling the Shienaran funeral back in the first episode might have set this up, if they had made a whole big thing about “the last embrace of the mother,” to establish how important it is that a Shienaran actually get planted. THAT might justify taking a moment from his quest.

Instead the focus of that conversation was Uno wanting to leave the bodies to rot and Ingtar stating that’s why he’s in charge and not Uno. If anything, the dialogue in that burial scene undermined Perrin’s motive to go back for Uno’s body.

16:55 This guy has the feel of “character.” Is he going to be a blowhard hunter? My guess would be a Child of the Light normally, given how normal and not scuzzy he looks, but their other name exists for a reason. Giving Perrin his own Forsaken this soon would probably be confusing, but we do need to do something with Aginor and Balthamel.

17:10 More to the point, WTF is an Aiel doing on Tomon Head? That’s where Atuan’s Mill was ITB and last season, it was established that the Seanchan have landed on the western coast. I thought Gaul was pretty dumb in the books for managing to put the two largest rivers in the world between himself and Tear, the only clue the Aiel had about where to look for He Who Comes with the Dawn, but now Rhian-or-Aviendha has also managed to get on the wrong side of the second largest mountain range as well.

17:35 Yep, Children of the Light. Wearing a cloak covering his uniform for no reason other than to surprise the audience and also Perrin, who has managed not to catch a single glimpse of said uniform on the walk to the inn, sitting at a table together and talking for a bit.

17:45 I am guessing that’s Dain. And why have they not exchanged names at this point? Is Bornhald incognito or not?

18:59 I guess it’s character trait that there is absolutely no such thing as coincidence in Valda’s eyes.

Also, the Questioners actually seem to have substantial field forces, and are a division within the Children, as opposed to the books, where they were specialists, and rear-echelon specialists at that. A recurring point with the regular Children is their contempt for the Inquisitors who seldom or never face an enemy who is not already in chains. The losses they took capturing Rhian-or-Aviendha should dispel that idea, unless it’s simple ineptitude that caused them to take such losses. But that might be taken to mean that a woman is not a supreme warrior-goddess and enemy casualties might not be due entirely to her skills.

Valda’s yammering does not at all answer or rebut Bornhald’s point that he is unlikely to get any answers from the Aiel woman.

19:03 He heard a creak of a floorboard, in an inn, known to be occupied and open for business. What could have made him suspicious at all, except the needs of the script?

19:20 What is “Dain Bornhald” supposed to mean to a view of this show? How many people remember the commander who was with Valda when he first appeared? If it’s for the book readers, why should that name be meaningful when spoken by a character who is nothing like the book version with the same name?

19:47 Ah, Moiraine sent the stablewoman ahead with the horses.

20:54 So the One Power can now just conjure material to stitch your lips shut. Which of the Five Powers do you use for that?

22:12 The White Tower can, and does, get the best of everything. Why are they acting like Verin smuggled toilet wine into a convent for them?

22:31 Why are they writing Brown sisters like this? A much more faithful portrayal, which would take less dialogue and make them seem less frivolous or naïve, would be for the sisters to not her arrival with surprise because they never noticed, or forgot, she had left, being so wrapped up in their own studies.

They’re acting like boarding school children, excited at a break in the routine, and their taste of forbidden booze.

22:55 I would be very interested to know how and why Liandrin brought them here, with their hands bound and not regaining consciousness.

23:21 Liandrin ITB didn’t have to worry about shielding and binding the girls, because, like absolutely every character whom the script has not gifted with impossible insights, her book version is much more competent, and she got them to come along willingly rather than drag them there as captives.

And Nynaeve is asking how Liandrin attacked them with the One Power, forgetting how she used that very same “attack” weave on her in the kitchen.

23:43 I know why the Aes Sedai swear the Three Oaths, it’s to give the false impression that they are safe and harmless, while also allowing themselves to evade the consequences of deceit or having to commit to a cause. I have no faith that Judkins & co know, or that Liandrin’s explanation will make any sense.

24:40 How was the king going to burn the Tower? How do the Tower’s rituals and rules make them predictable? What rituals and rules have we seen, except for some acknowledged in the breach? How does it make people comfortable with them?

25:10 Liandrin went over to the Shadow because her son is dying of old age.

26:49 Again, mouthing off at a Forsaken is not something Book!Suroth would do in the first place, but adaptationally justified to make the hierarchy clear.

29:40 Let’s see if they actually manage to attack all together, because most battles on these shows do devolve into redshirts attacking the main character one at a time.

30:11 Is Perrin going to end up in possession of Bornhald’s axe at the end of this fight?

30:18 Nope – that guy is running out first

30:21 It looks like as the first guy was swinging at Aviendha, another one was just diving at Perrin’s feet.

31:33 Extraneous flips notwithstanding, that wasn’t bad, and it was fast and fluid enough to be believable, and they were not too obvious about the failure to execute Bornhald’s order.

Aviendha was certainly more impressive than her future mother-in-law’s final battle last season, which, I suppose, is to be expected considering one of them was in labor (although she was doing even more ridiculous moves in defiance of physics) in her thirties and the other … not … and about ten years younger.

31:59 It did not look like either of them carried off the weapons they took up.

32:42 It’s starting to snow, several days after the springtime festival. As well as locations that are father north than Tar Valon, geographically, having summer weather in prior episodes.

32:57 It’s not even as far north as Tar Valon – they are in Cairhien!

32:59 Are we meeting Galad or Gawyn? Or is it going to be some middle-aged guy highlighting yet again, the incongruity of Rosamund Pike’s actual appearance and Moiraine’s fictional age. Or the guy who is going to marry the queen?

33:22If this blonde guy can be a Cairhienin, why couldn’t Pike use her own hair color?

33:56 If Anvaere remembers Rand, why the side-eye? If he was showing up at fancy parties, he could very well be a person of importance, and if he’s a mess now, so in Moiraine.

34:06Dude, she just asked for fast transportation. Read the room.

What is the point of introducing him? Is the Horn going to make a loop back this way for him to play his part from tGH? Remember in the books, where Moiraine disowned her family, so we didn’t get any of this crap? For all the whining from readers about Jordan wasting time with peripheral activities and descriptions, between Judkins and Sanderson, he is a marvel of efficient plotting and tight prose.

36:05 Sheriam’s incompetence as Mistress of Novices is canon, I should note.

Also, for many people, far and away the most fascinating thing about Verin his membership in the Black Ajah. I find it hard to believe the show is changing that. Which brings up the question, why is she rusticating writing a history, instead of keeping near the center of power?

Also, we have a scene here of two Black sisters being puzzled about the results of a third Black’s machinations. Send out some memos, Ishamael! Of course, it could be that Sheriam is in on it, in which case, she should have a better cover story ready for the inevitable curiosity, that does not make her look like a tool.

36:38 If Verin knows she’s Black, she should not be pushing.

And why would Nynaeve and Egwene be allowed to accompany Elayne on a visit home? That makes no sense, just by logic, considering that Nynaeve is an Accepted now, and never mind normal Tower rules and procedures, especially since Elayne just got here.

Maybe it’s the writers’ intention to make this look odd, but it does not do much for the institutional competence of the Aes Sedai and White Tower, and Verin either pushed too much in that conversation, or let her off inexplicably easy, as well as the point that Sheriam should have had a much better cover story ready for the disappearance of definite persons of interest, being the three most notable students in the Tower as well as the three strongest known living female channelers.

39:22 So the Browns are detectives now, I guess. This isn’t the worst way to bring out the Black Ajah and also have them connected to the Wondergirls leaving the Tower. Like, I could honestly see every beat of the Darkfriend hunt from tDR flowing from that scene.

41:41 This was very weird with the girls. Why would the soldiers be the ones to take them from Liandrin, instead of sul’dam leashing them, and why just dump them off to the side, instead of bringing them into the custody of the sul’dam? What if they wake up right this moment and can fight back?

41:58 And once again, Nynaeve is reduced. Rather than her own fast thinking or intuition, she’ll escape the Seanchan by a whim of Liandrin.

42:03 Why were they not brought to Suroth before this?

42:07 “Do something” Egwene says to the one woman present who, as far as she knows, is least likely to be able to do something, since she has not channeled outside the testing Arches since coming to the Tower.

43:09 “You do not dance the spears badly” Is this something that someone would just bring up over breakfast the morning after a fight? As opposed to in the immediate aftermath of a fight, where that line was said ITB?

44:11 A man & woman of similar ages are in close proximity, so sex has to come up in the conversation, however awkwardly or unnaturally. Can’t be ANYthing else of interest. Why would Perrin think “my water is yours” has any sexual meaning, and why would Aviendha take his “I don’t know about that” to mean he read something sexual into it? Real world people understand the concept of an honor debt and all but expect it from barbarian types, they would not assume a sexual connotation is this context, and in the books, sexual nuances of both cultures go right over the heads of the other.

And, too, Aviendha, until she got some disturbing revelations in her test to become a Wise One’s apprentice, was apparently somewhat asexual, to such a degree that even after having sex herself, she was still ignorant enough to seek tutelage from the virginal and even more sexually oblivious Elayne. She did not understand flirting, even after spending months eye-fucking with Rand (and a few hours actual), her reaction to Mat flirting with her in the Stone was unusually violent for a man used to, and not offended by, rejection and she got offended by even the innocent suggestion that having given up the spear, she might someday have a child. Clearly sex is something we need to address right away in depicting her character!

46:24 Elayne, at least in the early days of their partnership, did not always understand the need for discretion, sometimes dropping her identity when it was least appropriate or failing to cower or grovel when she should. Nynaeve often had a very good feel for a situation, and tended to be cautious, not letting her focus on her primary goal blind her to the job in front of her. ITB, Nynaeve was being extra cautious, while Elayne took a risk to steal food for them.

46:43 And Nynaeve does not have trouble listening to common sense! She does NOT balk just for the sake of it. That was Egwene’s juvenile bullshit in tDR. Nominally, Elayne gave off “I’m in charge vibes” but she and Nynaeve never clashed over giving or following orders, much less got pissy about mistaking rational assessments of the situation for ego tripping bossiness. And while Elayne is logical and analytical, Nynaeve was neither stupid nor blind to situations around her. She generally had a good feel for people even if she did not have any knowledge of particular customs or practices that Elayne might have learned in her royal education.

They really hate Nynaeve, don’t they?

47:46White asparagus only grows in one town on the river between Tar Valon and Tear. That’s it. The only place.

And why is this something an Aes Sedai would pick up while in Jurene on business? This is the most prestigious place and most powerful organization in the world. If there is anyone who does not need to grab a seasonal delicacy when she is in the vicinity, it is a resident of the White Tower, since, if it is at all desirable, merchants would be bringing it, and they could afford it, and would acquire it if for no other reason that to show that they can. This is not WoT specific stuff, this is how rich and powerful people and groups act.

50:16 Moiraine’s back on the mission, she should not be giving off these clueless vibes Anvaere refers to. Not knowing the next step to take is not what her sister is describing, which is more appropriate to her malaise in the earlier episodes. But right now, Moiraine knows what she wants and is working towards it.

50:39 A world without guns has the word “crossfire.”

53:27 He is actually accusing the world of WoT of being backwards? First of all, it’s not a simple 3,000 year progression. As Ishamael knew in the books, since he was the one who kept knocking society back. It’s been less than a thousand years since the War of the Hundred Years utterly destroyed the advances of Artur Hawkwing’s Empire, which could be construed as the equivalent to the fall of the Roman Empire in the West. Which was in 476. And ITB, the world of WoT has made considerable progress in many areas compared to Western Europe in 1474. They have printing, which was invented around the same time, and they are rather ahead of the ball with clocks. In England, the Wars of the Roses hadn’t quite ended. And that was 3000 years removed from the peak of the Egyptian empire and the beginning of Mycenaean Greece. So 3000 years is not a long time to messing around with swords and queens, as the real world was apparently doing it for much longer.

Also, the Breaking of the World didn’t begin until after the Forsaken were sealed away, so I don’t know how or why they are accused of doing it.

53:47 Is all the eye makeup an effort to make the rather plain-looking woman we have previously seen match the level of beauty the book descriptions ascribe to Lanfear, or is it intended to make her look possessed or tainted or something, like Mads Mikkelsen and his crew in Dr Strange?

54:36 I wish the Premium functions were working. If ever there was a line that calls for a Luke Skywalker macro with the quote “Amazing. Every word you just said was wrong.” Moghedian is, quite possibly, by far the most sane of all the Forsaken, Graendal’s vanity is a clear ruse, and most of “the boys” are actually pretty good planners. They don’t get names like “Net weaver” or gain extensive political and military power without it.
The question going forward is, is this stupidity Lanfear’s canonical blindness and self-absorption, or the writers’?

55:05 She looks a lot like the creepy Kryptonian chick who hangs around with General Zod in Superman II and Man of Steel.

56:25 Why did we not get this guy in any dream sequences in Season 1? He could have done it.

56:39 They still don’t know what it means to request an audience, as opposed to commanding one’s presence. A lower ranking person requests an audience, a higher-ranking commands your presence. Last season, they had the Amyrlin requesting an audience with two farm girls. And unless Turak is similarly under Ishamael’s thrall (in which case, why bother with Suroth), he should be commanding his presence, not requesting an audience.

1:02:17 I can’t exactly fault them for going a route that explores Rand’s psychology, since that’s something they have completely ignored for a whole season and a half. But given their grasp of the characters demonstrated to date, it’s the one thing they have no business messing with. And it seems we’re completely tossing his arc of growing into a leader that was the subject of Book 2. When, exactly, do they plan to do that? It’s kind of a significant step he needs to take.

1:02:53 This is so ridiculous, that I can’t decide if the show thinks it’s being cool, or if they are just that good that they nailed what Lanfear would think is cool.

1:03:07 Maybe a hair better than before, but still Liars!

There were some things this episode did better than the usual performance of the show so far. But it’s plain they grossly misunderstand most of the characters, and the setting in a way that suggests they know do much about how people or a society or an organization should function.

They’re also still really inept and possibly playing favorites (ineptly) when it comes to building up the characters. They are still sabotaging Nynaeve at every opportunity, and still trying to highlight Moiraine, except things they think are cool are actually stupid, dialogue and actions they think convey strength only depict childishness and despite doing all this to their female characters, take all the accomplishments and agency they can from the males and give it to females in what seems to be a warped attempt at feminism.

This show is soooo much more feminist because they have not caused the fandom to clutch their pearls in horror at the idea of a gendered magic system, instead replacing it with vague, incomprehensible and contradictory rules, and in exchange, we get male characters using women for sex, shots lingering over the glistening bodies of bathing women and lots and lots of sexist insults. We don’t get Wisdoms with political authority or medical ethics, we don’t get to learn that their home country is ruled by a queen, no men need apply, but Ila does the talking for the Tinkers instead of Raen, the oppressive monarch of Cairhien is a queen instead of a king, House Damodred is led by a Lady instead of a Lord, and it’s possible that some behind-the-scenes or supporting material will tell you that Egwene’s mother and not her father, is the mayor of Emond’s Field. Girlpower!

“Tolerance is the virtue of the man without convictions.” GK Chesteron
Inde muagdhe Aes Sedai misain ye!
Deus Vult!
Next episode
This message last edited by Cannoli on 23/09/2023 at 06:53:45 AM
Reply to message
Season 2 Episode 5 - 16/09/2023 07:22:43 AM 307 Views
Quick question - Damane? - 16/09/2023 07:56:30 PM 118 Views
I am really sad about Loial being chained. - 18/09/2023 02:50:34 PM 120 Views
I'm enjoying season 2 quite a lot - 18/09/2023 04:24:04 PM 163 Views
It's clear what happened - 18/09/2023 07:40:06 PM 122 Views
Sad thing is, WOT doesn't need any wokeness..... - 19/09/2023 08:14:14 PM 126 Views

Reply to Message