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Re: Yes. Thoughts Cannoli Send a noteboard - 04/03/2026 02:37:42 PM

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Not a top tier Dresden book, but it was all right.

Dresden was too depressed in this book. Susan's death (mother of his daughter, whom he had dated for years) didn't bother him nearly as much as Karen's, and he killed Susan himself.


Well, in the case of Susan, she had committed a massive betrayal and he had already moved on from her, having been in a relationship with Anastasia since they were last together. Whereas Karin has been there from the outset, and they were a lot closer in some ways that he was with Susan, even if it took until the last prior book for them to actually pull the trigger on a romantic relationship.

On top of Karin's death, is the accumulated trauma from the war, the deaths of all but one of his friends among the Wardens, the seeming loss of the rest of his family, and the psychic trauma of his followers dying that he felt through the banner of will. Mab herself seems to think that even months later, that alone is enough to excuse extreme offense given on his part.

Another thing to note is that part of his whole journey in 12M is reconciling with Ramirez & McCoy, both of whom he left off in a bad place with in BG & PT, respectively. So not only has he lost a girlfriend, he's lost most of his support network, except for basically Michael & Will.


Speaking of Karen's death, I think we're eventually going to learn that Rudolph was mind controlled to persecute Dresden.

Highly possible.
F Rudolph, sure, but F Martin harder. It seems like Martin's plan could work two ways:

1) Manipulate Susan into killing him, and then hope Dresden and Susan could work out the plan to kill Susan on the altar. Resulting in Dresden killing Susan in front of his daughter.

2) Kill Susan himself, and let Dresden kill him on the same altar. Resulting in Dresden avenging his baby momma in front of his daughter.


Not too sure how I feel about the idea that it was all Martin's plan. It really seems, as you indicate, like it was leaving too much up to chance. The other possibility, is that Martin was just always leaving little things out there to give the good guys a shot, such as when he tells Susan that if she had actually been as paranoid and suspicious as he urged her to be, she would have caught onto him long ago. So in that regard, it makes a kind of sense that he is looking for the chance to commit suicide-by-Fellowship.




Spice 'Goyles was dumb.

I didn't like the names to set up that joke, and I'm not really thrilled about the whole concept of the castle and the gargoyles themselves. It feels less like an organic development in the story, and more like the universe handing him toys for free. I thought Demonreach was a bit convenient too, back in TC. The revelation of its true nature and purpose was cool and fixed that a bit, making it into more of a burden than a power or benefit, but it also raised the question of exactly why no one had claimed the position, since it seems to be rather common knowledge among the Senior Council, to the point that there appears to have been a discussion of Harry taking up the Wardenship before he even knew what it meant. I think the whole Demonreach bit could have benefitted from a longer setup, the way it was done with Lasciel's coin & shadow. Maybe a couple more books pass after his first hunch that the place is going to be important, then a couple more of him having the sanctum and a slower build-up of the significance. I go back on forth on the fortuitous coincidence of the showdown with the Denarians taking place there, but considering what they were up to, it was a fitting environment for trying to contain the Archive, symbolically-speaking, which probably helps empower the spells, as well as cutting her (and Marcone) off from civilization which is where her real power lies.

Anyway, what I am getting at is, the issue with Demonreach is magnified with the castle. Butcher wanted Harry to have a more upgraded HQ, and really, the story kind of demanded it, given the expansion of his power and status in the paranormal world, and so he just ... made it happen. Does it make sense that Marcone would import this powerful magical castle to be the HQ of his paranormal operation? Or having invested so much in getting it and setting it up, he would give it up to Harry so easily? Bob taking over as the castle's operating system was good, the coincidence of it being the same type work as Demonreach is another stretch and the gargoyles feel both mechanically necessary, if you have the slightest understanding of what it necessary to have such a formidable residence/HQ and also far too convenient in their suitability to purpose and just showing up to offer their services. Feels like the kind of thing he should have had to fight for (also maybe he should have had to vanquish a former Warden of Demonreach, at the least). From a narrative standpoint, I can accept them as a stroke of good fortune in his life to balance the crap that has been dumped on him lately, and I thought the book did a good job establishing the support staff, such as the local refugee residents and the Knights of the Bean joining up as guards. There are also the mentions of having to do a lot of maintenance to keep it working, and his imminent need for money for the whole thing. While I understand the point of having Harry constantly on the verge of being broke and having struggle to make a living on top of everything else, the story has moved way past the wizard PI shtick and it's time to show the struggles of having to cope at higher levels - in other words, having more income but also incurring more expenses. There is only so far you can push the "having to make ends meet, just like you" bit with characters who have superhuman abilities before it becomes tedious, not least because the average person, for whom income is a significant preoccupation, can idly think of half a dozen ways they could exploit those powers to get financial security(why doesn't Spider-man go back to the wrestling thing, or find other ways to exploit his strength, agility or tingle for greater remuneration?)


Margaret's curse on Lord Raith fails if Dresden and Thomas die. (And Maggie and the new baby, now? Does the entire bloodline have to be wiped out?) At one point I thought Peace Talks was going to center around a plot by Lord Raith to make that happen. Lara's been in charge long enough she should just gank him as he's going to keep making trouble. Alternatively, Dresden can apparently rip the Hunger out of any White Court vamp. Maybe do that to him.

Yeah. I don't think it's a plot hole just yet. Lara doesn't seem particularly strong in vampire powers. She notes in this book both that Thomas is much stronger than she, and hasn't actually honed his powers. So she does kind of need Lord Raith as a catspaw and a force-in-being to maintain her position at the head of the court. Now that Harry has the ability, it's a very definite possibility, going forward. He might actually be able to replace Lord Raith as the unspoken threat of force behind Lara's authority and subtle intrigues to keep the court in line. And/or Thomas might have to take more of a role going forward as Lara's enforcer. Either way, I think it fits with my theory about Harry's arc going forward.
In Turn Coat, when the Naagloshi attacked Raith Manor and hurt her family, she threatened it: "I am going to kill you". I keep hoping to see that, because I feel like she needs to follow up on that promise. I really hoped we would see Dresden and Lara lead a White Court strike team to do the deed. It would make a good short story.

There is the question of how much they actually can be killed, given their immortal status and all. On top of that, Listens-to-Wind didn't want to pursue it. It strikes me as a high-risk, low-reward operation. Harry has too much else on his plate, and Lara is a predator and predators look for the most efficient kill. They're not big game hunters.
At Lara's party when Drakul shows up, he preemptively accepts a challenge from the White Council. Anytime, anyplace, he says. I thought Dresden would accept immediately and name the place as Demonreach. I assume that one or more White Council powerhouse would have even more dangerous sanctums, though.

Harry's magic wasn't up to snuff yet. The reasons why he and Ramirez didn't immediately suit up and go after him when Harry told Carlos about the invite applied just as much in the moment. And there is the sticking point that no one higher in the Council or Wardens than Ramirez seems at all interested. Drakul seems to basically be part of the landscape, as far as the higherups are concerned. You can really see in this book (and considering that we are feeling the ripples of the destruction of the Red Court) how the powers that be might very well consider him a Devil You Know, and not yet want to deal with another power vacuum or the question of who is going to replace him.
I'm glad Fitz is back, and that he has the potential to be a major talent. Could be good for the story.

Yes. In addition, I like him as an apprentice better than Molly. Her attitudes, her gross incompetence contrasting with her magical skill, the Carpenter connection, it had its place and provided story stuff for Harry, but with Fitz it's more of a pure teaching relationship. No unrequited crush, no outside family and a much more sensible demeanor.
I want more from the Paranet. It seems to have the manpower and potential to find all the probable warlocks and start their training, then hand them over to the White Council for serious training if they've got talent.

I don't think so. Even Harry can't always tell if a paranormal phenomenon is a practitioner or something else. For a mundane, or barely-talented type to be able to discern a potential wizard seems very improbable. I do see them becoming more effective, better organized and more useful for other things, and will be an element of Dresden's power base as he becomes more of a player in the higher strata of magical society.
The ending was unmemorable. I can't decide whether I disliked Dresden and his allies near-effortlessly crushing the bad guys for once. I mean, eventually a big climactic fight should be well-prepared for and fairly easy.

I know what you mean, but I think it works, in keeping with the change-of-pace nature of this book. In a lot of ways, this story is really a lot of the stuff that goes on between the books. You could do something similar in between nearly every couple of books, at least from the mid-series on. How often does a book present you with stuff that Dresden already had set up, like improved gear, Little Chicago, the dock on Demonreach, the Paranet, Harry's storage unit safehouse, and so on? The castle is just kind of a larger scale version. He could have just opened a book with "oh, by the way, I've taken on Fitz as an apprentice". I think this was about establishing Harry as a more prominent figure in the paranormal peerage, so to speak. In Westeros terms, he was a hedge knight for the longest time, then he was more or less affiliated with the Wardens, as a sort of allied free lance, then he became a household knight of Mab, and now he is more of a landed knight and her vassal, like Gregor Clegane is to the Lannisters, as opposed to the Hound. The point of the fight with the Black Court & Malvora was not a final conflict for Dresden to overcome, but an illustration of his new operating level.

I think the most important bit in that fight was not how easily he beat them, but the fact that he put out the word and actually asked everyone for help. He just doesn't do that. Basically, all his friends are always volunteering, offering or just showing up, and the crew he leads into the final confrontation are those whose persistent efforts to help him are grudgingly accepted. For Dresden to actually ask people to come to his house to help fight off an attack by multiple Black Court vampires is a HUGE character development. It has to be someone he is very very close to, and whose skills he respects a lot, like his brother, grandfather (rarely) or best friend/maybe love interest. He'll call the Paranet for info, or deploy the faeries for what he considers low risk tasks, he'll go to the Alphas for assistance, but as we see in TC, he doesn't consider the things he asks them for to be all that big, and claims he's still sheltering them. He treats the loan of a car as a huge favor in DB. He never asks a Knight for help, he just assumes they will show up if they are meant to. At most, he calls upon people to perform their institutional functions, e.g. as a Warden or a vassal of Winter. This represents a major sea change in Dresden's views of himself and his place in the community, and his relationships with the other characters.


I keep seeing in fan spaces that Butters is in a three-way relationship with two hot werewolves.

1) Marcy isn't hot. She's described as skinny and mousey.


"Not-fat" is generally a positive descriptor. And mousy is more of an attitude or demeanor than the implication that she has a rodent-like appearance. For a lot of people, the willingness to engage in group sex with a gorgeous redhead is a quality of hotness all on its own.
2) Unless there's Word of Jim out there, the books don't indicate that Butters has access to Marcy. Andi and Marcy are definitely having sex, but Butters may not be involved in that. "Don't mess this up, Harry" could just mean that Butters is worried he may lose Andi to Marcy altogether.

Yeah, I'd say that's a fair interpretation of the quote. But even if he only has intercourse with Andi, it seems that he is present for the girls' sexual interaction. Most people consider that a relationship, even if there are no romantic feelings or physical intimacy between him & Marci. Being in the same bed with someone, while they have sex with a person you also have sex with, sometimes in immediate sequence, is way more intimate than 99% of what goes on between two given people who aren't partners.

Look at it another way - he's a lot closer to Marci in a sexual sense than any two of Rand al'Thor's love interests are to one another (pre-Season 3 at any rate), and no one hesitates to call that a foursome or say that one of them is involved in a fourway relationship.


Anyway, fun to talk Dresden to someone. How did you like the book?

Like you said, not a top tier book in the series, but it was a good read for doing a lot of necessary work for the series. If you think of each book in the series as a party, this one might be more of the modern equivalent of barn-raising, like helping someone move, or paint their house, or install flooring. It's not really a party, but it still involves getting together with people you probably have some attachment to, a fair bit of socialization, possibly some music, and usually free food. And it accomplishes something that could allow for more parties in the future.
Cannoli
"Sometimes unhinged, sometimes unfair, always entertaining"
- The Crownless

“Tolerance is the virtue of the man without convictions.” GK Chesteron
Deus Vult!
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