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About bidding Isaac Send a noteboard - 13/01/2011 01:03:40 PM
Since I have a few moments of rare morning time free and I can't feed my normal news junkie habit on the current depressing headlines, let's take a moment to discuss a good bid philosophy.

Ranagrande's analysis about stock vs bribe is a dead ringer for bidding principles. It's pretty much a good idea to bid on everything, this is no prob for me, typing in 20 or 30 3-4 digit numbers per player per week means about 1 minute per player. If something goes for less than it's LiqVal plus Round Income you got a deal, you can just liquidate it at the top of the next round and turn a small profit if it doesn't meet into your personal expansion plans. So there's really no reason to ever bid less then about 20% above min bid on any standard asset or luxury, or stock.

Now, as for planets and miscellanous stuff like heroes or electors, I really have no idea what electors are worth, Planets just have that min value so if someone uber-over bids I have some value to liquidate their planet for, you can't voluntarily liquidate a planet. The MBs for those are simply 1, 2, and 3000 MS, those are insanely low. Parmentier, on our outcry bid right now, should retail at well over 6000 MS. It's a rich world, meaning it comes with 2d6+10 x100 MS income, or 1700 MS avg, roughly 3 times a standard asset with LiqVal 2000. It also grants 4 votes, and electors have been going at about 300 a vote, so figure it's worth about 3 of the minor standard assets and one weak elector, about 8-9000 MS by current rates... now it also comes with only one location and 3 militia. Locations are a hindrance, they can be attacked and have to be defended, so 3 standard assets and an elector have 4 times the land to guard. You have a Base BS of 5 and 3 militia you already are at an 8, throw in 3 legions and your at a BS of 14, nigh invincible at this stage of the game.

Let's look at this strictly as being worth exactly 5 rounds of income and ignore the votes and say it goes average... 1700x5 or 8500 MS, and you'll guard it with 3 legions

Recruit and transfer 3 legions - cost 3300 MS
Seize def score of 14
8500-3300 = 5200 MS

Compare that to the same for 3 ore mines each with one militia and getting one legion, BS 5 (nobody obviously has a Seizure score of 5 since its an odd number but raids and all, decent average too)

1800x5= 9000
Seize defense score of 8
9000-3300= 5700

but no votes and those 3 mines can be picked off by a note particularly dedicated attacker, having an attack score of 9 isn't too hard for a player with a combat of 4

One of the reasons I think Diplomacy might be too weak and will probably introduce a diplomacy based revenue bonus to replace the current diplo elector/planet bonus, once I've figure dout how that can best function, like vote total x diplo score times some amount of cash, maybe 15 MS, so a dip 4 player with 20 votes would get 1200 MS a round, that would seem to rebalance it, I just need to determine X, where X is some value between 5 and 20 MS, the just Inc=DxVxX, I hate midgame rule tinkering but I hate unbalanced games more :P Players are welcome to suggest what X be, and X iteself need not be a constant value, it could be something like 20-Rd# or 10+Rd# or even Inc=(D+2)xVxX, the spreadsheet does the math, not me, I just don't want anything weird enough I couldn't handcrank it in an emergency or players couldn't predict their own without being math-skilled. Figure that change along with the Grudge rules coming in during round 3, I'd rather do all revision in one big heap and the more game play I can see the better I can see flaws.

Anyway, it might behoove players to discuss how much something is really worth so they have an idea where to bid on things, that's part of the purpose of Outcry bids, to give a faster more interactive source of info on perceived value. I say perceived because especially this early in the game system nobody really knows, figure by late rounds or future games there will be a general 'standard', likely down to a couple hundred MS, that anything is worth to an average player. Most players are basically striking blind right now, and I can't help too much since I have only whatever guess-timating edge a deeper familiarity with the rules grants.
The intuitive mind is a sacred gift and the rational mind is a faithful servant. We have created a society that honors the servant and has forgotten the gift.
- Albert Einstein

King of Cairhien 20-7-2
Chancellor of the Landsraad, Archduke of Is'Mod
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Dune: Round 2 - 11/01/2011 03:33:07 AM 1622 Views
Crisis - 11/01/2011 03:33:39 AM 1189 Views
Forecast - 11/01/2011 03:34:03 AM 1053 Views
Auction Log and Results - 11/01/2011 03:34:21 AM 1259 Views
Player Vote Tracker - 11/01/2011 03:34:38 AM 1108 Views
Votes! Grand Ball and Chancellor's Challenge have been passed - 11/01/2011 05:06:36 PM 1212 Views
Pirate Vote Tracker - 13/01/2011 07:41:42 PM 1002 Views
Court Gossip Log - 11/01/2011 03:35:11 AM 1247 Views
Incidentally... - 12/01/2011 05:50:01 AM 1355 Views
CHOAM Auction Round 2 Phase 1 - 11/01/2011 03:35:53 AM 1447 Views
E2B - Agricultural Fief - 1 Militia (Min Bid 2000 MS, Inc 50 MS) - 11/01/2011 04:17:53 AM 1310 Views
2000 MS - Edited because of mistype, read 200 MS originally. *NM* - 11/01/2011 11:33:08 PM 791 Views
2050 MS *NM* - 13/01/2011 01:58:12 AM 543 Views
2100 MS *NM* - 13/01/2011 11:38:52 AM 628 Views
EDIT: 2100 MS - Invalid bid, my stupidity - 13/01/2011 11:43:24 AM 1203 Views
Incidentally you could just offer Beet a sum to buy it off of him - 13/01/2011 12:20:31 PM 1138 Views
Wait, what is 9 PM EST time in GMT +2? this one closed before my second bid, right? *NM* - 13/01/2011 11:40:26 AM 559 Views
I checked it. thats 4 AM my time. - 13/01/2011 11:42:50 AM 1138 Views
Ouch - 13/01/2011 12:17:33 PM 1144 Views
Too bad we don't have a chat room- that'd be perfect for outcry *NM* - 13/01/2011 04:47:34 PM 1387 Views
Rich Planet - Parmentier, Min Bid 3000 MS, 50 MS increment - 11/01/2011 04:20:34 AM 1369 Views
3000 MS *NM* - 11/01/2011 02:26:00 PM 608 Views
3100 MS *NM* - 11/01/2011 03:13:03 PM 572 Views
3300 MS *NM* - 11/01/2011 04:00:49 PM 634 Views
3350 MS *NM* - 11/01/2011 10:58:22 PM 581 Views
3400 MS *NM* - 11/01/2011 11:30:49 PM 665 Views
3450 MS *NM* - 12/01/2011 12:50:32 AM 644 Views
Pah, minimum bids. 3600 MS *NM* - 12/01/2011 02:28:44 AM 665 Views
They're pretty abitrary for non-LiqVal items *NM* - 12/01/2011 02:56:49 AM 619 Views
I think he was just Pahing the fact that we're bidding the minimum increments *NM* - 12/01/2011 02:34:42 PM 707 Views
Quite probably - this seems a good point to mentioning Horizontal scroll in bidding wars - 12/01/2011 02:59:56 PM 1119 Views
But I like horizontal scroll! *NM* - 12/01/2011 03:13:41 PM 608 Views
Exactly. I'm trying to destroy the status quo. - 13/01/2011 06:06:18 AM 1160 Views
3650 MS *NM* - 12/01/2011 07:47:15 AM 678 Views
3700 MS *NM* - 12/01/2011 02:33:41 PM 605 Views
3750 MS *NM* - 12/01/2011 04:23:05 PM 619 Views
3850 MS *NM* - 12/01/2011 07:04:46 PM 577 Views
3900 MS *NM* - 13/01/2011 01:57:57 AM 522 Views
Cut that out! 4400 MS! *NM* - 13/01/2011 06:17:52 AM 553 Views
I'm tempted to offer 4450... But not now. - 13/01/2011 11:35:00 AM 1224 Views
I will though. 4450 MS. *NM* - 13/01/2011 02:18:03 PM 624 Views
4500 MS *NM* - 13/01/2011 04:04:46 PM 539 Views
HZ scroll - last bid 4500 *NM* - 13/01/2011 06:29:59 PM 658 Views
4550 MS *NM* - 14/01/2011 11:46:43 PM 609 Views
Round 1 Phase 1 has begun - 11/01/2011 04:57:21 AM 1183 Views
Let's look at forecasts - 12/01/2011 04:24:46 AM 1433 Views
Court Gossip - 11/01/2011 05:40:30 AM 1244 Views
Vote: Hold Grand Ball *NM* - 11/01/2011 02:27:56 PM 602 Views
Vote: Hold Grand Ball *NM* - 11/01/2011 04:09:16 PM 630 Views
Vote: Hold Grand Ball *NM* - 11/01/2011 05:05:51 PM 604 Views
Vote: Hold Grand Ball *NM* - 11/01/2011 11:32:35 PM 641 Views
Hmmm. Debate? - 11/01/2011 05:20:59 PM 1155 Views
Yeaah - 11/01/2011 05:47:12 PM 1222 Views
Re: Yeaah - 11/01/2011 06:23:44 PM 1072 Views
Well, as for the Crisis- is everyone pretty firm in what they're voting for? Dunno if I am - 12/01/2011 05:45:11 AM 1185 Views
Well I wouldn't mind listening to some persuasive arguments, if anybody has some to offer. - 12/01/2011 05:51:48 AM 1229 Views
This crisis is a no-brainer. - 12/01/2011 03:12:21 PM 1166 Views
Good analysis. - 12/01/2011 04:06:20 PM 1131 Views
Court Gossip - Chancellor’s Challenge - 12/01/2011 09:20:43 AM 1592 Views
Vote: Accept Chancellor’s Challenge *NM* - 12/01/2011 02:31:59 PM 631 Views
Vote: Accept Challenge *NM* - 12/01/2011 04:06:51 PM 543 Views
Vote: Accept Chancellor's Challenge. (Erm...?) - 12/01/2011 05:46:38 PM 1143 Views
I was attacked by the Bandits of Surewood Forest - 12/01/2011 07:08:16 PM 1210 Views
I think "pirates" just means "NPC raiders" - 12/01/2011 07:35:04 PM 1089 Views
According to Court Gossip, it would be the Brigands of Bendar - 12/01/2011 09:45:36 PM 1179 Views
I was attacked by the Brigands of Bendar last night. - 13/01/2011 07:17:27 PM 1098 Views
Vote: Accept Chancellor's Challenge. *NM* - 12/01/2011 07:05:23 PM 659 Views
Vote: Accept Challenge *NM* - 12/01/2011 08:08:48 PM 618 Views
Pirate Name: Pirates of Carib Ion Sea *NM* - 12/01/2011 09:51:25 PM 592 Views
(Others should do this, too) - 13/01/2011 07:31:09 AM 1160 Views
I thought that as Adjutant General you could simply report our conclusions. *NM* - 14/01/2011 06:02:38 AM 591 Views
4 players have to "confirm" the names HINT HINT - 14/01/2011 08:21:23 AM 1093 Views
Yeah, I did so below. I was explaining why I didn't do so earlier. *NM* - 14/01/2011 07:15:00 PM 625 Views
"Pirate Name: Pirates of Carib Ion Sea" Yes, 4 of you have to do this for each pirate group *NM* - 14/01/2011 04:05:29 AM 549 Views
Pirate Name: Pirates of Carib Ion Sea *NM* - 14/01/2011 05:33:45 AM 574 Views
Pirate Name: Bandits of Surewood Forest *NM* - 14/01/2011 05:34:11 AM 548 Views
Pirate Name: Brigands of Bendar *NM* - 14/01/2011 05:34:38 AM 598 Views
Pirate Name: Brigands of Bendar *NM* - 14/01/2011 01:53:23 PM 595 Views
Pirate Name: Bandits of Surewood Forest *NM* - 14/01/2011 01:53:03 PM 574 Views
Pirate Name: Pirates of Carib Ion Sea *NM* - 14/01/2011 01:52:43 PM 587 Views
Pirate Name: Pirates of Carib Ion Sea - 14/01/2011 06:47:25 PM 1150 Views
I think that makes 4 of us for every name. - 15/01/2011 12:02:20 AM 1172 Views
Oh, he already has. Nevermind then. - 15/01/2011 12:03:30 AM 1346 Views
CHOAM Auction Round 2 Phase 1 - 13/01/2011 02:13:36 AM 1209 Views
All reports out now - 13/01/2011 03:08:33 AM 1052 Views
Court Gossip - 13/01/2011 04:18:26 AM 1118 Views
About bidding - 13/01/2011 01:03:40 PM 1359 Views
Pirate Name: Brigands of Bendar *NM* - 13/01/2011 07:40:53 PM 638 Views
Pirate Name: Bandits of Surewood Forest *NM* - 14/01/2011 05:48:23 AM 616 Views
Battle Plans - 14/01/2011 02:44:01 PM 1138 Views
As for the money... (and a couple other things) - 14/01/2011 06:05:04 PM 1205 Views
I agree with this arrangement. *NM* - 14/01/2011 07:14:16 PM 711 Views
Weird. I thought I replied to this. Hm. Anyway, I could attack one of the pirate Strongholds. *NM* - 14/01/2011 08:17:00 PM 596 Views
Cool. I can get another one. *NM* - 14/01/2011 09:42:53 PM 606 Views
I'll get the third. *NM* - 14/01/2011 10:32:02 PM 548 Views
So yeah, we need 3 volunteers with decent Diplomacy/Intrigue stats - 14/01/2011 09:43:58 PM 1134 Views
As stated above, I will be one of them - 15/01/2011 12:54:44 AM 1211 Views
So is anyone else investigating pirates? - 16/01/2011 02:28:06 AM 1211 Views
I guess I could do one. *NM* - 16/01/2011 02:43:05 AM 600 Views
Which group do you want? - 16/01/2011 04:41:04 AM 1155 Views
Late Auction Results - 15/01/2011 02:26:03 AM 1202 Views
Looming Crises - Round Ends 9 PM EST Sunday - 15/01/2011 02:27:48 AM 1351 Views
Some More Notes - 15/01/2011 03:47:59 AM 1161 Views
I'd be all for condensing it into one auction phase - 15/01/2011 04:07:56 AM 1213 Views
It'd be fairer for players like Bergioyn who aren't present near the deadline though. - 15/01/2011 04:18:19 AM 1096 Views
I think a better solution would be to randomize the deadlines - 15/01/2011 04:47:43 AM 1289 Views
That's true enough. *NM* - 15/01/2011 04:56:09 AM 566 Views
That's a possibility - 15/01/2011 05:32:55 AM 1115 Views
Hm... - 15/01/2011 07:13:06 AM 1226 Views
Okay, expected changes - 15/01/2011 05:29:31 AM 1272 Views
Probably a short delay on processing - 16/01/2011 10:37:39 PM 1124 Views

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