Active Users:1529 Time:19/10/2025 05:54:28 PM
Re: explanation Isaac Send a noteboard - 06/08/2013 09:47:35 AM

View original postThere are a few reasons why I have not posted much yet:


View original post1) I always have trouble with the first day. I have no clue what to do or say. In the flavoured games that I participated in I can say something about the theme, but without that I feel even more lost that usual

Day 1's are a nightmare, that's why I always prod mods to put in clues and mini-games for day 1. If it makes you feel better I think everyone hates Day 1. I know I do, shoving games forward on day 1 has contributed to making me a routine night action magnet, NK target, and perpetual suspect #1. Admittedly it is not the only reason but it is a big factor in it. There's a very direct correlation between player activity and night action usage.
View original post2) Last game I tried to push the game forward. This wasn't the best of tactics as it resulted in me spilling the beans on my character (as the only player) and almost got lynched the first day. Another reason why I keep low at the moment. I wait and see and leave it to more experienced players to come up with more or less reasonable first day-solutions.

Instead we lynched Beet, who was a scummer. Walking the razor's edge is half the fun of the game, for me anyway.


View original postAs I think I am not the only one with this kind of explanation, besides the persons who are or have been RBIRL I think this strategy Isaac proposed, is not very valuable. It still is a covert random lynch.

But it isn't random at all, the logic is simple. We lynch people, on the surface, for scummiest behavior, but ultimately our goal is to try to nail the scum while expending the minimum assets. A good townie tries to aim as many bullets at the scum as possible while minimizing the odds of a townie dying and minimizing the damage to the town. This is why a vanilla Day 1 claim is considered anti-town, it does not help the town because it is either true or it isn't, if true it gives the scum better odds of killing a roled player, if false then we have to activate the Lie-Lynch policy. So anything that harms the town's chances at victory is anti-town, and anything that enhances it is pro-town, and in the absence of a good specific suspect the town has only 3 options:

1) No Lynch - but most of the players consider this to be anti-town
2) Random Lynch - But a true random lynch is anti-game, it is just tossing a die.
3) Minimize possible damage to the town by selecting a target who is as likely to be scum or roled as anyone else, but if town is acting in the most anti-town or least pro-town fashion, minimizing damage to the town.

There's more to play then role powers, we need investigation, deduction, insight, prosecution and defense, etc and those can only be observed via what people post, more we know that the scum are most strategically aided by silence. Even I consider it so, I just consider silence anti-game and don't use it, but it definitely is advantageous. So silence by a townie aids the scum because it allows them to minimize their own risk by matching it. The scum who prefer to be talkative typically are steering the mood and agenda anyway, and having done that a lot I can say it is much easier to do if other people aren't out their trying to steer and object. When many players are quiet then some of the scum can hide form sight and exposure and the stronger ones can steer the ship. So silence is anti-town and thus not a 'random lynch' at all. Not just because it minimizes losses but also because it often prods players into action.

It's important to understand that as frustrating as Day 1 is for townies, it is more so for the scum, this is their most powerful yet most vulnerable time. Every question, every line of attack, has a chance of toppling them before they've been able to meet and speak. Whole lines of future maneuver can be clipped out by a single remark from a scummer on day 1 even if they survive un-lynched and unsuspected. The clever scum get together on night 1 and create a grand plan and fallbacks and means of warning each other covertly during the day, they can act as a group and find each other's overlooked errors or messups. But not until night 1. They're weakest now and that's why pressing hard on day 1 is vital.

The intuitive mind is a sacred gift and the rational mind is a faithful servant. We have created a society that honors the servant and has forgotten the gift.
- Albert Einstein

King of Cairhien 20-7-2
Chancellor of the Landsraad, Archduke of Is'Mod
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Mafia 32 - No Fancy Title - Day 1 - 28/07/2013 06:46:40 PM 3348 Views
Present *NM* - 28/07/2013 07:52:29 PM 896 Views
Reporting in *NM* - 28/07/2013 09:50:47 PM 861 Views
Here. *NM* - 28/07/2013 10:42:26 PM 893 Views
Present! *NM* - 28/07/2013 11:03:03 PM 931 Views
I stand ready. *NM* - 29/07/2013 01:36:27 AM 896 Views
Helloooooo Players! *NM* - 29/07/2013 01:54:16 AM 876 Views
So, where to begin? *NM* - 29/07/2013 02:43:48 AM 894 Views
Use lube, this is my first time! *NM* - 29/07/2013 08:26:59 AM 869 Views
I loled *NM* - 29/07/2013 10:31:08 AM 910 Views
Just because of this comment I know he'll fit right in. - 01/08/2013 10:38:01 AM 1430 Views
Fox is being triggerhappy. *NM* - 01/08/2013 06:08:21 PM 884 Views
It's always fun on day 1! *NM* - 01/08/2013 06:37:26 PM 890 Views
RBIRL from Tuesday to Sunday - 29/07/2013 01:06:35 PM 1490 Views
I'm RBIRL from friday to sunday, myself - 29/07/2013 02:10:19 PM 1591 Views
RBIRL from Wednesday to Saturday. - 29/07/2013 02:18:47 PM 1488 Views
I'm joining the RBIRL train - 31/07/2013 01:50:55 PM 1472 Views
Present *NM* - 29/07/2013 02:53:40 PM 907 Views
apparently we got no fancy fantasy theme, but straight Mafia *NM* - 29/07/2013 03:18:18 PM 875 Views
I'm actually kinda glad. I think it was getting too...complicated for me. - 29/07/2013 03:48:33 PM 1511 Views
Agreed, but I would imagine Bergioyn might have some twists in store for us. - 29/07/2013 09:52:30 PM 1440 Views
Eh, Let's just go. IT WAS YOU THAT DID IT, WASN'T IT *NM* - 29/07/2013 10:56:49 PM 857 Views
It was you that done it, now own up! *NM* - 29/07/2013 11:41:40 PM 880 Views
Okay! I admit it! It was me! Oh wait... were you talking to or him? *NM* - 30/07/2013 02:31:30 AM 734 Views
Vote: Hobo - 30/07/2013 02:43:15 AM 1481 Views
Re: Vote: Hobo - 01/08/2013 12:27:15 AM 1485 Views
Re: Vote: Hobo - 01/08/2013 10:44:27 AM 1559 Views
I don't think it was - 01/08/2013 12:50:24 PM 1491 Views
If I remember correctly he had some dastatdly plot to catch the scum. - 01/08/2013 04:32:51 PM 1476 Views
He was very unclear on tha tpoint after the fact - 01/08/2013 11:27:00 PM 1556 Views
No, his plan was actually pretty good. - 06/08/2013 01:00:31 AM 1613 Views
How is that a good plan? - 06/08/2013 06:37:24 AM 1663 Views
Well, believe it or not, I swear it wasn't me this time. I blame s *NM* - 30/07/2013 02:07:38 PM 889 Views
it was probably Isaac but in the end he'll win the game *NM* - 30/07/2013 05:37:07 PM 880 Views
Rule #1: Isaac wins *NM* - 30/07/2013 06:18:38 PM 940 Views
Rules are made to be broken. *NM* - 30/07/2013 06:51:38 PM 901 Views
But is this rule able to be broken? *NM* - 30/07/2013 06:54:22 PM 879 Views
Sure. Last time he lost was game 29. *NM* - 30/07/2013 09:32:45 PM 852 Views
Surely you recall the Marvel[ous] Siege? You were mason buddy - 01/08/2013 12:14:47 AM 1486 Views
I vaguely remember the Marvel game, but not any specifics... *NM* - 04/08/2013 09:55:24 PM 871 Views
I do... - 05/08/2013 04:25:10 AM 1455 Views
Rule #2: Isaac is always suspected, but not lynched. *NM* - 30/07/2013 10:32:57 PM 887 Views
Isaac is like the German Soccer team in this. - 01/08/2013 10:45:39 AM 1360 Views
Re: Isaac is like the German Soccer team in this. - 01/08/2013 12:18:52 PM 1556 Views
(here) *NM* - 29/07/2013 11:03:26 PM 850 Views
Vote: Sacrilicious Toast - 30/07/2013 12:56:04 PM 1564 Views
Re: Vote: Sacrilicious Toast - 31/07/2013 09:19:11 AM 1593 Views
Re: Vote: Sacrilicious Toast - 01/08/2013 10:50:16 AM 1440 Views
Re: Vote: Sacrilicious Toast - 01/08/2013 12:11:33 AM 1452 Views
Activate! *NM* - 31/07/2013 03:03:50 AM 874 Views
Not too bad that you waited with the game, Berg - 01/08/2013 10:35:51 AM 1453 Views
Re: Not too bad that you waited with the game, Berg - 01/08/2013 11:06:23 AM 1459 Views
Okay, getting moving (Table) - 01/08/2013 11:45:30 PM 1588 Views
Yes, No, No. *NM* - 02/08/2013 02:32:52 AM 856 Views
Yes, No, No - 02/08/2013 08:54:12 AM 1495 Views
Re: Yes, No, No - 02/08/2013 09:50:24 AM 1436 Views
Yeah, my name's a real one too, just not logically related to anything in the game. *NM* - 02/08/2013 07:17:42 PM 859 Views
Same here. *NM* - 04/08/2013 09:54:10 PM 833 Views
Yes, No, No *NM* - 02/08/2013 01:03:24 PM 830 Views
Yes, no, no *NM* - 02/08/2013 08:26:52 PM 790 Views
yes, no, no *NM* - 03/08/2013 01:10:00 AM 871 Views
would be nice if one player answered Yes, Yes. Yes now: Lie = lynch *NM* - 03/08/2013 09:12:07 AM 829 Views
Well I'm reasonably sure some of them will either answer other then yes, no, no or lie - 03/08/2013 12:29:34 PM 1491 Views
Yes. No. No. - 04/08/2013 09:02:49 AM 1377 Views
Re: Yes. No. No. - 04/08/2013 11:19:03 AM 1453 Views
Yes, No, No *NM* - 03/08/2013 11:06:41 PM 860 Views
Yes, no, no. Also, I'm back. *NM* - 04/08/2013 09:52:11 PM 728 Views
Yes, no, no. Also, I'm back. *NM* - 04/08/2013 09:52:47 PM 824 Views
Dangit, I hate when I double post. *NM* - 04/08/2013 09:53:29 PM 876 Views
Yes, No No *NM* - 05/08/2013 03:28:03 AM 845 Views
Sorry I didn't have anything new to add... *NM* - 05/08/2013 03:29:28 AM 814 Views
Yes, No, No. *NM* - 06/08/2013 12:46:10 AM 808 Views
I might as well Unvote before I forget - 02/08/2013 03:32:43 PM 1416 Views
EBWOP - 02/08/2013 03:33:23 PM 1400 Views
Vote: Isaac - 03/08/2013 05:09:47 AM 1514 Views
Re: Vote: Isaac - 03/08/2013 07:32:48 AM 1439 Views
The "... and people die" part is probably accurate though *NM* - 03/08/2013 12:32:40 PM 837 Views
Correlation does not equal causation . *NM* - 03/08/2013 05:42:30 PM 860 Views
Precisely *NM* - 04/08/2013 11:22:52 AM 840 Views
Re: Vote: Isaac - 05/08/2013 08:31:03 PM 1508 Views
Re: Vote: Isaac - 06/08/2013 06:40:24 AM 1457 Views
Baaaack~ - 03/08/2013 11:26:57 PM 1462 Views
Although interesting, the questions don't seem to be adding much to the info - 05/08/2013 07:03:07 PM 1495 Views
Well - 05/08/2013 07:25:22 PM 1423 Views
That is correct - 05/08/2013 07:35:24 PM 1438 Views
Oh yeah, you're right - 05/08/2013 09:42:23 PM 1495 Views
Re: Oh yeah, you're right - 05/08/2013 10:09:48 PM 1507 Views
Re: Oh yeah, you're right - 05/08/2013 10:20:02 PM 1541 Views
I posted I was back.... NLRBIRL *NM* - 05/08/2013 10:25:58 PM 795 Views
Yeah, I missed that. Sorry *NM* - 06/08/2013 03:13:11 AM 865 Views
What's the NL for? RBIRL Real Busy in Real Life, NL=? - 06/08/2013 08:56:16 AM 1468 Views
Oh, duh, "No Longer" RBIRL *NM* - 06/08/2013 08:57:15 AM 814 Views
Yup *NM* - 06/08/2013 01:00:31 PM 862 Views
would be a very awkward abbreviation - 07/08/2013 10:05:17 AM 1409 Views
Re: Although interesting, the questions don't seem to be adding much to the info - 05/08/2013 08:26:01 PM 1584 Views
Agreed. Random lynches seem like a last resort to me. - 05/08/2013 08:55:59 PM 1499 Views
Now that you mention it, appearance might indeed be useful. - 06/08/2013 12:52:25 AM 1541 Views
Re: Now that you mention it, appearance might indeed be useful. - 06/08/2013 06:59:26 AM 1501 Views
Re: Now that you mention it, appearance might indeed be useful. - 06/08/2013 10:01:18 AM 1500 Views
Re: Now that you mention it, appearance might indeed be useful. - 06/08/2013 12:56:47 PM 1583 Views
I didn't have anything either. *NM* - 06/08/2013 01:02:46 PM 866 Views
No, I'm sorry, I don't - 06/08/2013 02:33:58 PM 1541 Views
No appearance was described in my role message. *NM* - 06/08/2013 08:45:51 PM 853 Views
Nope. *NM* - 07/08/2013 07:23:00 PM 852 Views
No, nothing on appearance *NM* - 07/08/2013 09:02:11 PM 853 Views
I think we may need to contemplate some semi-random options - 06/08/2013 07:55:25 AM 1477 Views
List of remarks by the 'accused', plus some remarks on them - 06/08/2013 08:51:15 AM 1657 Views
explanation - 06/08/2013 09:05:55 AM 1538 Views
Re: explanation - 06/08/2013 09:47:35 AM 1549 Views
Re: explanation - 06/08/2013 09:59:45 AM 1568 Views
Re: explanation - 06/08/2013 01:28:49 PM 1501 Views
I'm just surprised I'm not on the list. I was always a low poster... - 06/08/2013 10:00:22 AM 1515 Views
Re: I'm just surprised I'm not on the list. I was always a low poster... - 07/08/2013 07:48:34 PM 1446 Views
Your questions - 06/08/2013 02:59:16 PM 1548 Views
I apparently answered your questions backwards - 06/08/2013 03:06:06 PM 1478 Views
I would look at it a bit differently, even if the outcome doesn't change that much - 06/08/2013 03:55:12 PM 1539 Views
Well, I'm impressed - 06/08/2013 04:11:31 PM 1463 Views
I thank you for the compliment. - 06/08/2013 09:51:54 PM 1505 Views
Re: I thank you for the compliment. - 07/08/2013 01:53:25 AM 1473 Views
Those are fair points - 07/08/2013 11:08:21 AM 1483 Views
Re: Those are fair points - 07/08/2013 01:01:55 PM 1499 Views
Oh dear, this is unfortunate. - 07/08/2013 09:46:26 PM 1537 Views
I think you just killed Beetnemesis *NM* - 07/08/2013 10:56:16 PM 839 Views
Better him than me . *NM* - 07/08/2013 11:16:29 PM 837 Views
Re: Oh dear, this is unfortunate. - 07/08/2013 11:32:12 PM 1459 Views
nice analysis - 07/08/2013 10:25:20 AM 1401 Views
Like I said before, Tables=Death - 06/08/2013 07:20:07 PM 1498 Views
Re: Like I said before, Tables=Death - 06/08/2013 08:22:47 PM 1425 Views
Beware of BAMF! (Out of town till Saturday) - 07/08/2013 03:37:36 PM 1421 Views
Re: Beware of BAMF! (Out of town till Saturday) - 07/08/2013 04:11:04 PM 1467 Views
Re: Beware of BAMF! (Out of town till Saturday) - 07/08/2013 04:43:12 PM 1492 Views
Re: Beware of BAMF! (Out of town till Saturday) - 07/08/2013 05:34:04 PM 1489 Views
He really is... - 07/08/2013 04:55:59 PM 1463 Views
Re: He really is... - 07/08/2013 08:36:44 PM 1512 Views
Hm, that's not quite what I was thinking when I said that - 08/08/2013 08:49:11 PM 1395 Views
BAMF? - 07/08/2013 06:31:59 PM 1437 Views
It's the onomatopoeia nightcrawler makes when he teleports - 07/08/2013 06:38:24 PM 1491 Views
Re: It's the onomatopoeia nightcrawler makes when he teleports - 07/08/2013 06:42:30 PM 1545 Views
Re: It's the onomatopoeia nightcrawler makes when he teleports - 07/08/2013 06:45:49 PM 1516 Views
When it comes to Marvel, it's Spidey and Deadpool all the way! X-Men. Pffft. - 07/08/2013 10:38:41 PM 1428 Views
Dr Doom was always my favorite hero in Marvel, but Deadpool is pretty cool *NM* - 07/08/2013 10:52:39 PM 808 Views
Dr Doom has cool costume, but other than that I don't know much about him. - 07/08/2013 11:37:09 PM 1428 Views
He's Marvel's Lex Luthor, only much cooler - 07/08/2013 11:48:00 PM 1402 Views
I'd actually say he's a bit more like Marvel's Superman than Marvel's Lex Luthor. - 07/08/2013 11:54:14 PM 1531 Views
I'm not a Marvel fan, but Doom is amazing. - 07/08/2013 11:52:09 PM 1427 Views
OK, here I am! Some layout analysis: - 07/08/2013 04:49:33 PM 1487 Views
Re: OK, here I am! Some layout analysis: - 07/08/2013 05:44:09 PM 1530 Views
Well, you obviously know something, so out with it - 07/08/2013 06:33:04 PM 1465 Views
With that in mind... sounds like I hit too close to home, and you got sensitive - 08/08/2013 03:10:50 AM 1492 Views
Vote: Beetnemesis, Are you accusing me of being scum for pointing out your post had no substance? - 08/08/2013 03:39:25 AM 1556 Views
Re: - 08/08/2013 06:30:26 AM 1445 Views
Granted, as you yourself pointed out: attack is the best defense - 08/08/2013 08:17:31 AM 1391 Views
How often do we even have SKs? *NM* - 08/08/2013 09:39:58 AM 915 Views
This pushes it over the edge for me too. - 08/08/2013 01:13:21 PM 1447 Views
Hah. You got prickly pretty quickly. - 08/08/2013 07:39:24 PM 1460 Views
Prickly? I'm not touchy about it just suspiscious - 08/08/2013 08:01:39 PM 1425 Views
Re: OK, here I am! Some layout analysis: - 07/08/2013 06:38:45 PM 1455 Views
My feeling is that a "normal" game is pretty easy to balance - 08/08/2013 03:08:09 AM 1431 Views
re - 07/08/2013 08:36:15 PM 1454 Views
Isn't it at the very least Roleclaim time? - 08/08/2013 04:31:26 PM 1475 Views
Re: Isn't it at the very least Roleclaim time? - 08/08/2013 05:44:54 PM 1451 Views
Re: Isn't it at the very least Roleclaim time? - 08/08/2013 07:51:09 PM 1498 Views
Re: Isn't it at the very least Roleclaim time? - 08/08/2013 08:02:45 PM 1458 Views
Re: Isn't it at the very least Roleclaim time? - 08/08/2013 08:05:52 PM 1589 Views
The thing we want to avoid is MASS roleclaim - 09/08/2013 08:30:32 AM 1398 Views
Okay, almost totally off topic but... - 07/08/2013 11:40:54 PM 1389 Views
The problem with that - 08/08/2013 08:09:56 AM 1461 Views
Re: The problem with that - 08/08/2013 05:02:56 PM 1441 Views
Reminds me of the Cairhien game a bit. - 08/08/2013 06:14:17 PM 1411 Views
That remains one of my favorites - 08/08/2013 07:48:42 PM 1446 Views
I haaaated the Cairhien game - 08/08/2013 08:16:57 PM 1466 Views
Re: That remains one of my favorites - 08/08/2013 09:42:25 PM 1418 Views
Does anyone else have any opinions? - 08/08/2013 05:51:23 PM 1414 Views
My take: - 08/08/2013 08:00:13 PM 1597 Views
Did you just admit to being a scummer? - 08/08/2013 08:04:21 PM 1487 Views
Hah, remember when I mentioned grasping at straws? - 08/08/2013 09:31:35 PM 1428 Views
We have always used the term that way, always, that and only that back to game 2 - 08/08/2013 09:44:20 PM 1486 Views
Holy crap, 4 years ago. - 09/08/2013 02:09:09 AM 1341 Views
That's when you asked and were told by the Moderator, it has come up since then many times - 09/08/2013 04:10:28 AM 1425 Views
I can't be the only person laughing at you right now - 09/08/2013 05:44:03 PM 1429 Views
I doubt anyone is laughing including yourself - 09/08/2013 06:08:41 PM 1430 Views
No, he's correct. - 08/08/2013 09:53:43 PM 1548 Views
Re: My take: - 08/08/2013 08:12:46 PM 1527 Views
To be a student of Isaac is a subtle thing - 08/08/2013 09:30:02 PM 1391 Views
sure - 08/08/2013 08:44:06 PM 1435 Views
Hmm, my thoughts, - 08/08/2013 08:56:27 PM 1522 Views
Re: Does anyone else have any opinions? - 08/08/2013 10:30:22 PM 1469 Views
Re: Does anyone else have any opinions? - 08/08/2013 11:18:56 PM 1516 Views
"Post count" usually acts as a tiebreaker - 09/08/2013 02:12:28 AM 1482 Views
I disagree - 09/08/2013 09:00:33 AM 1405 Views
Re: I disagree - 09/08/2013 11:25:29 AM 1387 Views
Several people have called for a roleclaim from beet - 09/08/2013 09:06:28 AM 1433 Views
I feel like I'm missing something really obvious here... - 09/08/2013 09:16:51 AM 1434 Views
Re: I feel like I'm missing something really obvious here... - 09/08/2013 03:18:38 PM 1494 Views
No, I meant entrails. - 09/08/2013 03:49:21 PM 1396 Views
Re: No, I meant entrails. - 09/08/2013 04:05:31 PM 1440 Views
Ah. Well that definitely explains it. *NM* - 09/08/2013 04:49:55 PM 826 Views
That's awesome. *NM* - 09/08/2013 09:21:59 PM 816 Views
Re: Does anyone else have any opinions? - 09/08/2013 11:48:13 AM 1393 Views
I'll point out that SKs were one of a few options I hypothesized - 09/08/2013 05:47:23 PM 1454 Views
Re: I'll point out that SKs were one of a few options I hypothesized - 09/08/2013 07:10:44 PM 1323 Views
OK, so the smiley was a typo - 09/08/2013 07:26:58 PM 1462 Views
I do, but - 09/08/2013 03:39:28 PM 1432 Views
RBIRL - 09/08/2013 05:50:21 AM 1440 Views
The case on Beetnemesis - 09/08/2013 05:05:32 PM 1566 Views
Ah good, time for a point-by-point rebuttal - 09/08/2013 06:04:11 PM 1464 Views
EBWOP: A final point - 09/08/2013 06:14:25 PM 1529 Views
Actually... - 09/08/2013 06:38:26 PM 1474 Views
I can't see any difference with Isaac's "aggressiveness". *NM* - 09/08/2013 07:31:28 PM 897 Views
Re: EBWOP: A final point - 09/08/2013 07:55:19 PM 1538 Views
Yet you still refuse to roleclaim, are you suicidal? - 09/08/2013 07:04:40 PM 1515 Views
Shrug, I have nothing against roleclaiming. Roleclaim: Tracker - 09/08/2013 07:33:40 PM 1453 Views
Correct me if wrong... - 09/08/2013 08:39:58 PM 1482 Views
Exactly! - 09/08/2013 11:06:25 PM 1495 Views
Wow, I'm gone for 24 hours, - 11/08/2013 12:02:38 AM 1464 Views
No, you just did everything you could to avoid it, like claiming almost no one had asked... - 09/08/2013 08:42:10 PM 1555 Views
I think you're right. - 09/08/2013 11:47:32 PM 1687 Views
Re: Yet you still refuse to roleclaim, are you suicidal? - 09/08/2013 07:49:12 PM 1453 Views
Re: Yet you still refuse to roleclaim, are you suicidal? - 09/08/2013 08:04:42 PM 1521 Views
too much mud - 09/08/2013 09:50:35 PM 1538 Views
Vote: Beetnemesis - 11/08/2013 10:32:51 AM 1626 Views
@ Mod, Vote Check - 11/08/2013 04:46:16 PM 1462 Views
That's a valid vote, I had missed it. Twilight pending. - 11/08/2013 05:36:13 PM 1427 Views
Actually, so did I. Did I hammer? - 11/08/2013 05:55:14 PM 1407 Views
Yes. *NM* - 11/08/2013 05:59:47 PM 719 Views
beetnemesis has been lynched. - 11/08/2013 05:52:43 PM 1510 Views

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