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The case on Beetnemesis Isaac Send a noteboard - 09/08/2013 05:05:32 PM

I thought I'd summarize the various points on Beet, as I see them.

1) He was originally flagged as suspicious for minimal participation, considered an anti-town action. He came up lowest in 4 methods:

A) Post Count: 4
B) Non-NM Postcount: 0
C) Wordcount: 24
D) Artsapat's relvance method: 1 (Answered the three questions)

2) Upon coming up topping all those methods he posted in to hypothesize about game make up, at which point I felt his suggestions strongly implied he possessed some game relevant information as the suggestions were otherwise random and counter-indicated by the minimal knowledge of the game we had. The principle theories raised focused on multiple scum factions, a rare thing in a game of this size and while grounds for a mod to want many players to help absorb the extra night kills it is very definitely not a reason for a Mod to want 12 players. All options focused on an abnormally powerful scum faction(s).

3) He accused me, on the grounds I clearly thought he knew something, though he claims to know nothing. This accusation to be logically coherent would require A) That he had guessed and guessed correctly and B) That I was a scummer and C) that I would believe he had not guessed and D) That with all of these I would tip my hand so out of character and incredibly clumsily of fashions. All 4 of these improbable conditions must be true for his accusation to be viable, and thus far he has not even confirmed the first one, he has not yet denied having extra knowledge and has IMO sought to imply he did even as he presents an accusation that can only be true if he does not.

4) He was asked by multiple players to role claim, a customary request when one is considered a primary lynch candidate, which is obviously the case. He was also reminded that any delay would damage the credibility of his claim, he has neither roleclaimed nor offered any defense or reason why he should not.

5) In his remarks he referenced being 'bussed', a term regularly used here and exclusively to refer to when a scummer votes for another scummer. Revealing slips of this nature are not unheard of even very rare, but may be sheer accident so he was asked to explain it. Rather than claiming it was an innocent slip of words he instead claimed the term did not mean that, and replied evasively when told by the two most senior players that it only means that, including citations of the mafiascum wiki and a post where he himself asked what the term meant and was told, in absolutely unambiguous language, what the term meant, by the moderator of the game herself. He was also challenged to find any use by any player if the term in which his definition was used or even a definition other than the one given. He has not done so, instead claiming that even taking note of the usage is 'grasping at straws', this is not a proper offense but is instead an attempt to discredit the accusation rather than justify his own actions.

6) His entire defense now rests on a counter-accusation at myself, claiming I am a scummer for behaving in a fashion he himself acknowledges is totally normal for me, town or scum. He has made virtually no effort to answer any questions or inquiries directed at him except as a counter-accusation at me, using as his lone piece of evidence that I suspect him for actions he claims were not suspicious even after other players have said they also found his behavior suspicious. This does not even qualify as an OMGUS vote, a counter-accusation based solely on suspicions which can be considered even somewhat reasonable is anti-town, a sit implies asking questions and inquiring about abnormal actions is itself grounds for a lynch.

The intuitive mind is a sacred gift and the rational mind is a faithful servant. We have created a society that honors the servant and has forgotten the gift.
- Albert Einstein

King of Cairhien 20-7-2
Chancellor of the Landsraad, Archduke of Is'Mod
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Mafia 32 - No Fancy Title - Day 1 - 28/07/2013 06:46:40 PM 3571 Views
Present *NM* - 28/07/2013 07:52:29 PM 986 Views
Reporting in *NM* - 28/07/2013 09:50:47 PM 957 Views
Here. *NM* - 28/07/2013 10:42:26 PM 972 Views
Present! *NM* - 28/07/2013 11:03:03 PM 1029 Views
I stand ready. *NM* - 29/07/2013 01:36:27 AM 988 Views
Helloooooo Players! *NM* - 29/07/2013 01:54:16 AM 973 Views
So, where to begin? *NM* - 29/07/2013 02:43:48 AM 973 Views
Use lube, this is my first time! *NM* - 29/07/2013 08:26:59 AM 1036 Views
I loled *NM* - 29/07/2013 10:31:08 AM 1012 Views
Just because of this comment I know he'll fit right in. - 01/08/2013 10:38:01 AM 1593 Views
Fox is being triggerhappy. *NM* - 01/08/2013 06:08:21 PM 990 Views
It's always fun on day 1! *NM* - 01/08/2013 06:37:26 PM 1003 Views
RBIRL from Tuesday to Sunday - 29/07/2013 01:06:35 PM 1684 Views
I'm RBIRL from friday to sunday, myself - 29/07/2013 02:10:19 PM 1772 Views
RBIRL from Wednesday to Saturday. - 29/07/2013 02:18:47 PM 1670 Views
I'm joining the RBIRL train - 31/07/2013 01:50:55 PM 1646 Views
Present *NM* - 29/07/2013 02:53:40 PM 1012 Views
apparently we got no fancy fantasy theme, but straight Mafia *NM* - 29/07/2013 03:18:18 PM 969 Views
I'm actually kinda glad. I think it was getting too...complicated for me. - 29/07/2013 03:48:33 PM 1692 Views
Agreed, but I would imagine Bergioyn might have some twists in store for us. - 29/07/2013 09:52:30 PM 1600 Views
Eh, Let's just go. IT WAS YOU THAT DID IT, WASN'T IT *NM* - 29/07/2013 10:56:49 PM 970 Views
It was you that done it, now own up! *NM* - 29/07/2013 11:41:40 PM 991 Views
Okay! I admit it! It was me! Oh wait... were you talking to or him? *NM* - 30/07/2013 02:31:30 AM 827 Views
Vote: Hobo - 30/07/2013 02:43:15 AM 1699 Views
Re: Vote: Hobo - 01/08/2013 12:27:15 AM 1651 Views
Re: Vote: Hobo - 01/08/2013 10:44:27 AM 1736 Views
I don't think it was - 01/08/2013 12:50:24 PM 1678 Views
If I remember correctly he had some dastatdly plot to catch the scum. - 01/08/2013 04:32:51 PM 1697 Views
He was very unclear on tha tpoint after the fact - 01/08/2013 11:27:00 PM 1725 Views
No, his plan was actually pretty good. - 06/08/2013 01:00:31 AM 1824 Views
How is that a good plan? - 06/08/2013 06:37:24 AM 1855 Views
Well, believe it or not, I swear it wasn't me this time. I blame s *NM* - 30/07/2013 02:07:38 PM 986 Views
it was probably Isaac but in the end he'll win the game *NM* - 30/07/2013 05:37:07 PM 980 Views
Rule #1: Isaac wins *NM* - 30/07/2013 06:18:38 PM 1048 Views
Rules are made to be broken. *NM* - 30/07/2013 06:51:38 PM 999 Views
But is this rule able to be broken? *NM* - 30/07/2013 06:54:22 PM 973 Views
Sure. Last time he lost was game 29. *NM* - 30/07/2013 09:32:45 PM 948 Views
Surely you recall the Marvel[ous] Siege? You were mason buddy - 01/08/2013 12:14:47 AM 1655 Views
I vaguely remember the Marvel game, but not any specifics... *NM* - 04/08/2013 09:55:24 PM 976 Views
I do... - 05/08/2013 04:25:10 AM 1640 Views
Rule #2: Isaac is always suspected, but not lynched. *NM* - 30/07/2013 10:32:57 PM 990 Views
Isaac is like the German Soccer team in this. - 01/08/2013 10:45:39 AM 1550 Views
Re: Isaac is like the German Soccer team in this. - 01/08/2013 12:18:52 PM 1733 Views
(here) *NM* - 29/07/2013 11:03:26 PM 956 Views
Vote: Sacrilicious Toast - 30/07/2013 12:56:04 PM 1751 Views
Re: Vote: Sacrilicious Toast - 31/07/2013 09:19:11 AM 1777 Views
Re: Vote: Sacrilicious Toast - 01/08/2013 10:50:16 AM 1610 Views
Re: Vote: Sacrilicious Toast - 01/08/2013 12:11:33 AM 1632 Views
Activate! *NM* - 31/07/2013 03:03:50 AM 966 Views
Not too bad that you waited with the game, Berg - 01/08/2013 10:35:51 AM 1624 Views
Re: Not too bad that you waited with the game, Berg - 01/08/2013 11:06:23 AM 1662 Views
Okay, getting moving (Table) - 01/08/2013 11:45:30 PM 1761 Views
Yes, No, No. *NM* - 02/08/2013 02:32:52 AM 945 Views
Yes, No, No - 02/08/2013 08:54:12 AM 1692 Views
Re: Yes, No, No - 02/08/2013 09:50:24 AM 1593 Views
Yeah, my name's a real one too, just not logically related to anything in the game. *NM* - 02/08/2013 07:17:42 PM 947 Views
Same here. *NM* - 04/08/2013 09:54:10 PM 917 Views
Yes, No, No *NM* - 02/08/2013 01:03:24 PM 921 Views
Yes, no, no *NM* - 02/08/2013 08:26:52 PM 875 Views
yes, no, no *NM* - 03/08/2013 01:10:00 AM 960 Views
would be nice if one player answered Yes, Yes. Yes now: Lie = lynch *NM* - 03/08/2013 09:12:07 AM 924 Views
Well I'm reasonably sure some of them will either answer other then yes, no, no or lie - 03/08/2013 12:29:34 PM 1664 Views
Yes. No. No. - 04/08/2013 09:02:49 AM 1546 Views
Re: Yes. No. No. - 04/08/2013 11:19:03 AM 1621 Views
Yes, No, No *NM* - 03/08/2013 11:06:41 PM 960 Views
Yes, no, no. Also, I'm back. *NM* - 04/08/2013 09:52:11 PM 831 Views
Yes, no, no. Also, I'm back. *NM* - 04/08/2013 09:52:47 PM 921 Views
Dangit, I hate when I double post. *NM* - 04/08/2013 09:53:29 PM 968 Views
Yes, No No *NM* - 05/08/2013 03:28:03 AM 977 Views
Sorry I didn't have anything new to add... *NM* - 05/08/2013 03:29:28 AM 900 Views
Yes, No, No. *NM* - 06/08/2013 12:46:10 AM 900 Views
I might as well Unvote before I forget - 02/08/2013 03:32:43 PM 1595 Views
EBWOP - 02/08/2013 03:33:23 PM 1565 Views
Vote: Isaac - 03/08/2013 05:09:47 AM 1685 Views
Re: Vote: Isaac - 03/08/2013 07:32:48 AM 1614 Views
The "... and people die" part is probably accurate though *NM* - 03/08/2013 12:32:40 PM 910 Views
Correlation does not equal causation . *NM* - 03/08/2013 05:42:30 PM 944 Views
Precisely *NM* - 04/08/2013 11:22:52 AM 930 Views
Re: Vote: Isaac - 05/08/2013 08:31:03 PM 1680 Views
Re: Vote: Isaac - 06/08/2013 06:40:24 AM 1631 Views
Baaaack~ - 03/08/2013 11:26:57 PM 1631 Views
Although interesting, the questions don't seem to be adding much to the info - 05/08/2013 07:03:07 PM 1669 Views
Well - 05/08/2013 07:25:22 PM 1592 Views
That is correct - 05/08/2013 07:35:24 PM 1624 Views
Oh yeah, you're right - 05/08/2013 09:42:23 PM 1673 Views
Re: Oh yeah, you're right - 05/08/2013 10:09:48 PM 1719 Views
Re: Oh yeah, you're right - 05/08/2013 10:20:02 PM 1689 Views
I posted I was back.... NLRBIRL *NM* - 05/08/2013 10:25:58 PM 869 Views
Yeah, I missed that. Sorry *NM* - 06/08/2013 03:13:11 AM 958 Views
What's the NL for? RBIRL Real Busy in Real Life, NL=? - 06/08/2013 08:56:16 AM 1656 Views
Oh, duh, "No Longer" RBIRL *NM* - 06/08/2013 08:57:15 AM 918 Views
Yup *NM* - 06/08/2013 01:00:31 PM 958 Views
would be a very awkward abbreviation - 07/08/2013 10:05:17 AM 1588 Views
Re: Although interesting, the questions don't seem to be adding much to the info - 05/08/2013 08:26:01 PM 1756 Views
Agreed. Random lynches seem like a last resort to me. - 05/08/2013 08:55:59 PM 1682 Views
Now that you mention it, appearance might indeed be useful. - 06/08/2013 12:52:25 AM 1746 Views
Re: Now that you mention it, appearance might indeed be useful. - 06/08/2013 06:59:26 AM 1669 Views
Re: Now that you mention it, appearance might indeed be useful. - 06/08/2013 10:01:18 AM 1667 Views
Re: Now that you mention it, appearance might indeed be useful. - 06/08/2013 12:56:47 PM 1769 Views
I didn't have anything either. *NM* - 06/08/2013 01:02:46 PM 950 Views
No, I'm sorry, I don't - 06/08/2013 02:33:58 PM 1716 Views
No appearance was described in my role message. *NM* - 06/08/2013 08:45:51 PM 937 Views
Nope. *NM* - 07/08/2013 07:23:00 PM 946 Views
No, nothing on appearance *NM* - 07/08/2013 09:02:11 PM 959 Views
I think we may need to contemplate some semi-random options - 06/08/2013 07:55:25 AM 1648 Views
List of remarks by the 'accused', plus some remarks on them - 06/08/2013 08:51:15 AM 1816 Views
explanation - 06/08/2013 09:05:55 AM 1696 Views
Re: explanation - 06/08/2013 09:47:35 AM 1715 Views
Re: explanation - 06/08/2013 09:59:45 AM 1741 Views
Re: explanation - 06/08/2013 01:28:49 PM 1672 Views
I'm just surprised I'm not on the list. I was always a low poster... - 06/08/2013 10:00:22 AM 1694 Views
Re: I'm just surprised I'm not on the list. I was always a low poster... - 07/08/2013 07:48:34 PM 1615 Views
Your questions - 06/08/2013 02:59:16 PM 1720 Views
I apparently answered your questions backwards - 06/08/2013 03:06:06 PM 1696 Views
I would look at it a bit differently, even if the outcome doesn't change that much - 06/08/2013 03:55:12 PM 1739 Views
Well, I'm impressed - 06/08/2013 04:11:31 PM 1639 Views
I thank you for the compliment. - 06/08/2013 09:51:54 PM 1690 Views
Re: I thank you for the compliment. - 07/08/2013 01:53:25 AM 1640 Views
Those are fair points - 07/08/2013 11:08:21 AM 1659 Views
Re: Those are fair points - 07/08/2013 01:01:55 PM 1660 Views
Oh dear, this is unfortunate. - 07/08/2013 09:46:26 PM 1719 Views
I think you just killed Beetnemesis *NM* - 07/08/2013 10:56:16 PM 939 Views
Better him than me . *NM* - 07/08/2013 11:16:29 PM 926 Views
Re: Oh dear, this is unfortunate. - 07/08/2013 11:32:12 PM 1625 Views
nice analysis - 07/08/2013 10:25:20 AM 1578 Views
Like I said before, Tables=Death - 06/08/2013 07:20:07 PM 1677 Views
Re: Like I said before, Tables=Death - 06/08/2013 08:22:47 PM 1602 Views
Beware of BAMF! (Out of town till Saturday) - 07/08/2013 03:37:36 PM 1583 Views
Re: Beware of BAMF! (Out of town till Saturday) - 07/08/2013 04:11:04 PM 1627 Views
Re: Beware of BAMF! (Out of town till Saturday) - 07/08/2013 04:43:12 PM 1684 Views
Re: Beware of BAMF! (Out of town till Saturday) - 07/08/2013 05:34:04 PM 1664 Views
He really is... - 07/08/2013 04:55:59 PM 1632 Views
Re: He really is... - 07/08/2013 08:36:44 PM 1674 Views
Hm, that's not quite what I was thinking when I said that - 08/08/2013 08:49:11 PM 1550 Views
BAMF? - 07/08/2013 06:31:59 PM 1594 Views
It's the onomatopoeia nightcrawler makes when he teleports - 07/08/2013 06:38:24 PM 1700 Views
Re: It's the onomatopoeia nightcrawler makes when he teleports - 07/08/2013 06:42:30 PM 1724 Views
Re: It's the onomatopoeia nightcrawler makes when he teleports - 07/08/2013 06:45:49 PM 1678 Views
When it comes to Marvel, it's Spidey and Deadpool all the way! X-Men. Pffft. - 07/08/2013 10:38:41 PM 1601 Views
Dr Doom was always my favorite hero in Marvel, but Deadpool is pretty cool *NM* - 07/08/2013 10:52:39 PM 889 Views
Dr Doom has cool costume, but other than that I don't know much about him. - 07/08/2013 11:37:09 PM 1603 Views
He's Marvel's Lex Luthor, only much cooler - 07/08/2013 11:48:00 PM 1604 Views
I'd actually say he's a bit more like Marvel's Superman than Marvel's Lex Luthor. - 07/08/2013 11:54:14 PM 1698 Views
I'm not a Marvel fan, but Doom is amazing. - 07/08/2013 11:52:09 PM 1591 Views
OK, here I am! Some layout analysis: - 07/08/2013 04:49:33 PM 1706 Views
Re: OK, here I am! Some layout analysis: - 07/08/2013 05:44:09 PM 1693 Views
Well, you obviously know something, so out with it - 07/08/2013 06:33:04 PM 1637 Views
With that in mind... sounds like I hit too close to home, and you got sensitive - 08/08/2013 03:10:50 AM 1670 Views
Vote: Beetnemesis, Are you accusing me of being scum for pointing out your post had no substance? - 08/08/2013 03:39:25 AM 1707 Views
Re: - 08/08/2013 06:30:26 AM 1612 Views
Granted, as you yourself pointed out: attack is the best defense - 08/08/2013 08:17:31 AM 1560 Views
How often do we even have SKs? *NM* - 08/08/2013 09:39:58 AM 1009 Views
This pushes it over the edge for me too. - 08/08/2013 01:13:21 PM 1616 Views
Hah. You got prickly pretty quickly. - 08/08/2013 07:39:24 PM 1628 Views
Prickly? I'm not touchy about it just suspiscious - 08/08/2013 08:01:39 PM 1588 Views
Re: OK, here I am! Some layout analysis: - 07/08/2013 06:38:45 PM 1638 Views
My feeling is that a "normal" game is pretty easy to balance - 08/08/2013 03:08:09 AM 1617 Views
re - 07/08/2013 08:36:15 PM 1639 Views
Isn't it at the very least Roleclaim time? - 08/08/2013 04:31:26 PM 1642 Views
Re: Isn't it at the very least Roleclaim time? - 08/08/2013 05:44:54 PM 1627 Views
Re: Isn't it at the very least Roleclaim time? - 08/08/2013 07:51:09 PM 1672 Views
Re: Isn't it at the very least Roleclaim time? - 08/08/2013 08:02:45 PM 1639 Views
Re: Isn't it at the very least Roleclaim time? - 08/08/2013 08:05:52 PM 1760 Views
The thing we want to avoid is MASS roleclaim - 09/08/2013 08:30:32 AM 1552 Views
Okay, almost totally off topic but... - 07/08/2013 11:40:54 PM 1559 Views
The problem with that - 08/08/2013 08:09:56 AM 1640 Views
Re: The problem with that - 08/08/2013 05:02:56 PM 1628 Views
Reminds me of the Cairhien game a bit. - 08/08/2013 06:14:17 PM 1593 Views
That remains one of my favorites - 08/08/2013 07:48:42 PM 1631 Views
I haaaated the Cairhien game - 08/08/2013 08:16:57 PM 1637 Views
Re: That remains one of my favorites - 08/08/2013 09:42:25 PM 1610 Views
Does anyone else have any opinions? - 08/08/2013 05:51:23 PM 1580 Views
My take: - 08/08/2013 08:00:13 PM 1772 Views
Did you just admit to being a scummer? - 08/08/2013 08:04:21 PM 1643 Views
Hah, remember when I mentioned grasping at straws? - 08/08/2013 09:31:35 PM 1596 Views
We have always used the term that way, always, that and only that back to game 2 - 08/08/2013 09:44:20 PM 1662 Views
Holy crap, 4 years ago. - 09/08/2013 02:09:09 AM 1513 Views
That's when you asked and were told by the Moderator, it has come up since then many times - 09/08/2013 04:10:28 AM 1584 Views
I can't be the only person laughing at you right now - 09/08/2013 05:44:03 PM 1587 Views
I doubt anyone is laughing including yourself - 09/08/2013 06:08:41 PM 1593 Views
No, he's correct. - 08/08/2013 09:53:43 PM 1727 Views
Re: My take: - 08/08/2013 08:12:46 PM 1705 Views
To be a student of Isaac is a subtle thing - 08/08/2013 09:30:02 PM 1558 Views
sure - 08/08/2013 08:44:06 PM 1616 Views
Hmm, my thoughts, - 08/08/2013 08:56:27 PM 1704 Views
Re: Does anyone else have any opinions? - 08/08/2013 10:30:22 PM 1643 Views
Re: Does anyone else have any opinions? - 08/08/2013 11:18:56 PM 1692 Views
"Post count" usually acts as a tiebreaker - 09/08/2013 02:12:28 AM 1656 Views
I disagree - 09/08/2013 09:00:33 AM 1568 Views
Re: I disagree - 09/08/2013 11:25:29 AM 1581 Views
Several people have called for a roleclaim from beet - 09/08/2013 09:06:28 AM 1611 Views
I feel like I'm missing something really obvious here... - 09/08/2013 09:16:51 AM 1608 Views
Re: I feel like I'm missing something really obvious here... - 09/08/2013 03:18:38 PM 1672 Views
No, I meant entrails. - 09/08/2013 03:49:21 PM 1572 Views
Re: No, I meant entrails. - 09/08/2013 04:05:31 PM 1609 Views
Ah. Well that definitely explains it. *NM* - 09/08/2013 04:49:55 PM 915 Views
That's awesome. *NM* - 09/08/2013 09:21:59 PM 905 Views
Re: Does anyone else have any opinions? - 09/08/2013 11:48:13 AM 1555 Views
I'll point out that SKs were one of a few options I hypothesized - 09/08/2013 05:47:23 PM 1627 Views
Re: I'll point out that SKs were one of a few options I hypothesized - 09/08/2013 07:10:44 PM 1492 Views
OK, so the smiley was a typo - 09/08/2013 07:26:58 PM 1628 Views
I do, but - 09/08/2013 03:39:28 PM 1596 Views
RBIRL - 09/08/2013 05:50:21 AM 1622 Views
The case on Beetnemesis - 09/08/2013 05:05:32 PM 1729 Views
Ah good, time for a point-by-point rebuttal - 09/08/2013 06:04:11 PM 1622 Views
EBWOP: A final point - 09/08/2013 06:14:25 PM 1701 Views
Actually... - 09/08/2013 06:38:26 PM 1665 Views
I can't see any difference with Isaac's "aggressiveness". *NM* - 09/08/2013 07:31:28 PM 1004 Views
Re: EBWOP: A final point - 09/08/2013 07:55:19 PM 1726 Views
Yet you still refuse to roleclaim, are you suicidal? - 09/08/2013 07:04:40 PM 1708 Views
Shrug, I have nothing against roleclaiming. Roleclaim: Tracker - 09/08/2013 07:33:40 PM 1620 Views
Correct me if wrong... - 09/08/2013 08:39:58 PM 1664 Views
Exactly! - 09/08/2013 11:06:25 PM 1684 Views
Wow, I'm gone for 24 hours, - 11/08/2013 12:02:38 AM 1623 Views
No, you just did everything you could to avoid it, like claiming almost no one had asked... - 09/08/2013 08:42:10 PM 1742 Views
I think you're right. - 09/08/2013 11:47:32 PM 1866 Views
Re: Yet you still refuse to roleclaim, are you suicidal? - 09/08/2013 07:49:12 PM 1623 Views
Re: Yet you still refuse to roleclaim, are you suicidal? - 09/08/2013 08:04:42 PM 1694 Views
too much mud - 09/08/2013 09:50:35 PM 1714 Views
Vote: Beetnemesis - 11/08/2013 10:32:51 AM 1797 Views
@ Mod, Vote Check - 11/08/2013 04:46:16 PM 1629 Views
That's a valid vote, I had missed it. Twilight pending. - 11/08/2013 05:36:13 PM 1617 Views
Actually, so did I. Did I hammer? - 11/08/2013 05:55:14 PM 1584 Views
Yes. *NM* - 11/08/2013 05:59:47 PM 806 Views
beetnemesis has been lynched. - 11/08/2013 05:52:43 PM 1687 Views

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