Maybe you should ask one of the others to explain this to me
Isaac Send a noteboard - 02/02/2010 12:01:48 AM
I've got to scram for a meeting fairly soon anyway, but your logic is not making sense to me. Not saying it doens't make sense, but maybe someone else can see it and rephrase it so I get it.
But you already admitted to following the game, you said you were looking in at the vote results etc. Personally, I'd be really surprised if really all you did was that and missed 'miller', I'd sort of expect you to at least grow curious and flick open those messages, that's why I thought it important to check if there were any. Seriously, it is hard for me to believe you never opened up the thread and then bypassed titles with 'My RC' and such in the title. If it's true, it's surprising to me, genuinely. Maybe you should ask some of the others, I suspect they'd be surprised too. The game is moderatly addictive, I haven't spent much time dead but when I have been I still flipped through most of the replies, can't say I gave them anything approaching my normal level of scrutiny but I think I read most or all of them, I have always assumed most of us did that. If you're saying you don't, fine, but I think that's more likely to be the exception than the rule. Such being the case, why is it weird for me to have suggested any of these things? If I'm the odd man out and your behavior is the norm, why did others posts agreeing it was outside the norm? You are basically saying my theory is crazy because I assumed most players tend to keep tabs on the game after they die. We can poll the others real quick and find out, 'do you tend to keep up on the game after you are killed?'
I don't need to give any reasons - I still did incidentally. I consider, and have always considered, and have always been upfront in saying so, that any reasonably proveable falsehood is grounds to push for a lynch. I was under the impression you agreed with this, certainly you've never stopped me from using it before. I'm not really interested in why on day 2 someone says they are vanilla and on day 3 says they are a cop, I assume if there is a valid reason they will present it, I've never felt obliged to say 'well, he probably faked claimed vanilla to protect his cop role' because it's their job to explain why and mine to prod for flaws in the argument. If I was 'overeager' to see you gone, I'd have voted for you by now, I certainly have never hesitated to vote for people whether I was a DF or not. You seem to be using both aspects of your interpretation of my behavior to indicate guilt. "Isaac is being overly aggressive and suspicious, which is suspicious" and simultaneously "Isaac's hedging, that's suspicious" which one is it?
Yes, I was waiting for you to further broach the subject before coming to any conclusion. There's this:
Further research on the matter shows the word 'miller' does not appear in the header of any day 4, 5, or 6 message, meaning the claim is still dubious but not outrageous. Had it appeared multiple times in a title, I would be voting for him right now, because it would have been practically proof of a lie.
Now, aside from the fact that you're granting the claim plausibility for all the wrong reasons (If I'm not following the game anymore, why would I be paying attention to post titles anymore than to post contents?) the phrasing is that the claim is outrageous, but given the circumstances it is marginally more plausible than it would otherwise have been. Essentially, you're still inciting doubt about my behaviour, while allowing yourself a more secure defensive position in case you get called out on it after my death reveals you to be wrong.
But you already admitted to following the game, you said you were looking in at the vote results etc. Personally, I'd be really surprised if really all you did was that and missed 'miller', I'd sort of expect you to at least grow curious and flick open those messages, that's why I thought it important to check if there were any. Seriously, it is hard for me to believe you never opened up the thread and then bypassed titles with 'My RC' and such in the title. If it's true, it's surprising to me, genuinely. Maybe you should ask some of the others, I suspect they'd be surprised too. The game is moderatly addictive, I haven't spent much time dead but when I have been I still flipped through most of the replies, can't say I gave them anything approaching my normal level of scrutiny but I think I read most or all of them, I have always assumed most of us did that. If you're saying you don't, fine, but I think that's more likely to be the exception than the rule. Such being the case, why is it weird for me to have suggested any of these things? If I'm the odd man out and your behavior is the norm, why did others posts agreeing it was outside the norm? You are basically saying my theory is crazy because I assumed most players tend to keep tabs on the game after they die. We can poll the others real quick and find out, 'do you tend to keep up on the game after you are killed?'
But mostly, it was the post just before that, where you gave a poor justification to my alleged lie, but mostly just went with 'I don't need to give any reasons'. That's what makes me think you may be overeager to see me gone.
I don't need to give any reasons - I still did incidentally. I consider, and have always considered, and have always been upfront in saying so, that any reasonably proveable falsehood is grounds to push for a lynch. I was under the impression you agreed with this, certainly you've never stopped me from using it before. I'm not really interested in why on day 2 someone says they are vanilla and on day 3 says they are a cop, I assume if there is a valid reason they will present it, I've never felt obliged to say 'well, he probably faked claimed vanilla to protect his cop role' because it's their job to explain why and mine to prod for flaws in the argument. If I was 'overeager' to see you gone, I'd have voted for you by now, I certainly have never hesitated to vote for people whether I was a DF or not. You seem to be using both aspects of your interpretation of my behavior to indicate guilt. "Isaac is being overly aggressive and suspicious, which is suspicious" and simultaneously "Isaac's hedging, that's suspicious" which one is it?
The intuitive mind is a sacred gift and the rational mind is a faithful servant. We have created a society that honors the servant and has forgotten the gift.
- Albert Einstein
King of Cairhien 20-7-2
Chancellor of the Landsraad, Archduke of Is'Mod
- Albert Einstein
King of Cairhien 20-7-2
Chancellor of the Landsraad, Archduke of Is'Mod
Rafo Mafia 4: Day 1 has ended.
27/01/2010 05:53:50 PM
- 3042 Views
This is a confirmation of the prompt receival of said role message.
27/01/2010 08:30:45 PM
- 1198 Views
You made it up
27/01/2010 09:01:31 PM
- 1152 Views
Hmm ...
27/01/2010 09:21:59 PM
- 1237 Views
Ha.
28/01/2010 01:28:27 AM
- 1088 Views
It sounds like a real word.
28/01/2010 01:55:58 AM
- 1172 Views
You know, I'm still irritated we haven't been able to come up with a good R1 system
28/01/2010 07:08:22 AM
- 1118 Views
Well, lacking anything else...
28/01/2010 11:58:25 PM
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I haven't the faintest idea what they mean.
29/01/2010 01:30:19 AM
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Not really
29/01/2010 02:27:05 AM
- 1233 Views
Let's try something
29/01/2010 02:47:30 AM
- 1148 Views
alrighty then
29/01/2010 03:29:51 AM
- 1217 Views
That's sufficient, thanks
29/01/2010 03:48:11 AM
- 1066 Views
Yea, my message has all that.
29/01/2010 03:56:52 AM
- 1221 Views
Probably
29/01/2010 04:10:42 AM
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Re: Probably
29/01/2010 07:30:48 AM
- 1085 Views
True- most DFs would wait a bit, and be like the 4th or 5th to jump in
29/01/2010 08:19:43 AM
- 1160 Views
I've got MPD
29/01/2010 04:22:00 AM
- 1181 Views
Surprise, surprise: I do too.
29/01/2010 06:21:04 AM
- 1137 Views
Remember when we killed the Serial Killer on Day 1? That was fun. Let's do that! *NM*
29/01/2010 08:20:24 AM
- 733 Views
I have MPD and number under 14. *NM*
29/01/2010 06:18:59 AM
- 798 Views
I like to think of the first kill as a sacrifice to the Gods of Mafia
30/01/2010 04:14:17 AM
- 1137 Views
Re: I like to think of the first kill as a sacrifice to the Gods of Mafia
30/01/2010 04:27:53 AM
- 1120 Views
High priests cannot be sacrificed!
30/01/2010 04:53:38 PM
- 1082 Views
Some cultures, they make the best sacrifices
30/01/2010 05:47:46 PM
- 1163 Views
I want to roleclaim.
30/01/2010 07:08:11 PM
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That is, well, surprising
30/01/2010 08:28:04 PM
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Yeah, but I think it's best to do it now.
30/01/2010 09:38:49 PM
- 1096 Views
Hm. I wonder if we're all robots inside of a Mafia simulator. *NM*
30/01/2010 11:20:25 PM
- 675 Views
Well, I'm back...
31/01/2010 01:43:17 AM
- 1162 Views
Why do fencers keep appearing without me knowing of it?!?
31/01/2010 02:48:22 AM
- 1168 Views
Oh, and I had my first real tournament today...
31/01/2010 03:23:45 AM
- 1169 Views
Eh. Just don't listen to Issac too much.
31/01/2010 04:47:53 AM
- 1123 Views
I wanna say F-T, just cause I hate Millers.
31/01/2010 05:10:07 AM
- 1109 Views
But do you think a DF would try something that DFs already did in the game we just played?
31/01/2010 05:53:24 AM
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And on a third hand...
31/01/2010 07:00:22 AM
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So... back to neutral. *NM*
31/01/2010 03:27:58 PM
- 627 Views
You don't find that statement dubious?
31/01/2010 04:14:47 PM
- 1130 Views
I knew Yunalseca was a Darkfriend...
31/01/2010 07:17:33 PM
- 1102 Views
Everyone! Deep breaths...
31/01/2010 11:50:39 PM
- 1117 Views
That's a pretty big thing to forget though.
01/02/2010 01:39:44 AM
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Who said anything about forgetting?
01/02/2010 02:53:49 AM
- 1150 Views
It brings you protection from guilty Cop results. *NM*
01/02/2010 03:01:22 AM
- 810 Views
No...
01/02/2010 06:25:07 AM
- 1150 Views
Man... I hate defending people I'm not sure about
01/02/2010 07:14:13 AM
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I agree with beet here.
01/02/2010 07:42:12 AM
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Offer alternatives then
01/02/2010 11:18:47 AM
- 1168 Views
I didn't mean we shouldn't reference strategies from earlier games
01/02/2010 02:23:26 PM
- 1147 Views
I agree, more or less
31/01/2010 05:55:11 AM
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Re: I agree, more or less
31/01/2010 03:34:10 PM
- 1180 Views
Tracker is a role that sees who his target performs a Night Action on...
31/01/2010 03:49:24 PM
- 1040 Views
Re: I agree, more or less
31/01/2010 04:19:33 PM
- 1104 Views
Eh. I think this is going to end like Hopper.
31/01/2010 11:58:52 PM
- 1119 Views
What I don't like is the fact that Millers are often not told they're Millers.
01/02/2010 12:08:14 AM
- 1152 Views
Well, he could still be Mafia and have appropriate flavor.
01/02/2010 01:46:58 AM
- 1144 Views
We can't just lynch Isaac on the off chance that he might be a DF.
31/01/2010 05:42:08 AM
- 1139 Views
Alright, from my reading,
31/01/2010 10:53:52 PM
- 1139 Views
RE: I didn't mean we shouldn't reference strategies from earlier games (horizontal scroll avoidance)
01/02/2010 02:46:35 PM
- 1231 Views
I really just meant that I don't think F-T's claim of not knowing about Yuna's claim is
01/02/2010 06:16:11 PM
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You still haven't explained what the purpose of such a lie would be.
01/02/2010 07:15:35 PM
- 1076 Views
I think the rationale was this:
01/02/2010 07:38:41 PM
- 1054 Views
Beg Pardon?
01/02/2010 08:07:20 PM
- 1117 Views
It's true, Isaac likes to be a leader, rather than a doer. *NM*
01/02/2010 11:17:02 PM
- 705 Views
Coward. *NM*
01/02/2010 11:17:21 PM
- 737 Views
Er... what just happened, here? *NM*
02/02/2010 12:55:51 AM
- 773 Views
I made a pointless post, decided to turn it into a semi-sarcastic insult.
02/02/2010 01:27:48 AM
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There's not really anything to explain
01/02/2010 09:20:57 PM
- 1111 Views
Re: There's not really anything to explain
01/02/2010 10:03:57 PM
- 1134 Views
Re: There's not really anything to explain
01/02/2010 10:33:49 PM
- 1203 Views
Re: There's not really anything to explain
01/02/2010 11:11:37 PM
- 1168 Views
Maybe you should ask one of the others to explain this to me
02/02/2010 12:01:48 AM
- 1098 Views
Re: Maybe you should ask one of the others to explain this to me
02/02/2010 01:15:41 AM
- 1131 Views
Right, so: A New Target
01/02/2010 08:03:28 PM
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Re: Right, so: A New Target
01/02/2010 08:20:06 PM
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Re: Right, so: A New Target *NM*
01/02/2010 08:48:25 PM
- 643 Views
Message get eaten? *NM*
01/02/2010 09:21:34 PM
- 674 Views
Apparantly... It was just a minor thing, lemme see if I remember...
02/02/2010 12:44:28 AM
- 1132 Views
Right, so: Defending Myself
01/02/2010 11:30:38 PM
- 1230 Views
Hmm...more accusations beyond beet's
02/02/2010 06:02:51 AM
- 1087 Views
Fair question, but it's actually pretty straightforward.
02/02/2010 04:41:18 PM
- 1252 Views
Your logic isn't terrible...
02/02/2010 04:54:54 PM
- 1050 Views
Re: Your logic isn't terrible...
02/02/2010 05:42:43 PM
- 1086 Views
Re: The random thing
02/02/2010 04:59:42 PM
- 1275 Views
Nah, I anticipated this would make me the prime lynch candidate.
02/02/2010 08:48:19 PM
- 1225 Views
Re: Nah, I anticipated this would make me the prime lynch candidate.
02/02/2010 09:23:43 PM
- 1111 Views
Okay, so I've been reading, but I kept meaning to post on my comp. Sorry.
02/02/2010 06:21:12 AM
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I never tried to stop any discussion
02/02/2010 12:46:54 PM
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Like I said, I don't find it very suspicious, but it was just something I had seen.
02/02/2010 11:14:53 PM
- 1145 Views
Kronin is at least as suspicious as Issac, or F-T
02/02/2010 05:09:56 PM
- 1129 Views
That's pretty bold claim of intention.
02/02/2010 05:18:40 PM
- 1113 Views
Vote: Fanatic-Templar
03/02/2010 04:36:52 AM
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Re: Vote: Fanatic-Templar
03/02/2010 03:13:57 PM
- 1238 Views
Speaking of time...
03/02/2010 03:28:42 PM
- 1186 Views
Only if it starts to grind to a halt. *NM*
03/02/2010 04:50:32 PM
- 756 Views
Re: Only if it starts to grind to a halt.
03/02/2010 06:52:54 PM
- 1198 Views
Er... IS it active? I feel like we've kinda exhausted everything
03/02/2010 11:19:29 PM
- 1059 Views
Hahaha. well, it was!
04/02/2010 12:59:13 AM
- 1080 Views
"No lynch" is a bad idea. At the very least, let's lynch someone random *NM*
04/02/2010 04:07:00 AM
- 683 Views
Everybody knows my perspective on no lynches...or at least I suspect they do. *NM*
04/02/2010 04:09:17 AM
- 758 Views
So you'd rather lynch someone random over F-T? Why?
04/02/2010 04:35:40 AM
- 1186 Views
Because I think F-T is almost definitely not a DF
04/02/2010 06:58:15 AM
- 1150 Views
Re: Because I think F-T is almost definitely not a DF
04/02/2010 07:07:37 AM
- 1039 Views
Well, yeah- a chance of getting a DF is better than no chance at all
04/02/2010 07:04:27 PM
- 1128 Views
But there is a chance F-T is a DF.
04/02/2010 07:34:37 PM
- 1085 Views
Fair enough...
04/02/2010 07:49:26 PM
- 1091 Views
I agree with D_K actually
04/02/2010 08:32:09 PM
- 1174 Views
You think F-T has less than a 29% (4/14) chance to be a DF?
04/02/2010 08:55:34 PM
- 1060 Views
If a given random person is 30%, then yes, I think F-T is 29% or less
04/02/2010 11:20:26 PM
- 1145 Views
I regret that I have only one life to give to the Light...
04/02/2010 11:00:56 PM
- 1160 Views
You know, you're still at L-3.
04/02/2010 11:14:40 PM
- 1315 Views
L-2, as it were.
04/02/2010 11:41:10 PM
- 1102 Views
Just had to make me incorrect?
04/02/2010 11:55:02 PM
- 1065 Views
I couldn't resist. *NM*
05/02/2010 01:07:59 AM
- 695 Views
05/02/2010 01:15:51 AM
- 1170 Views
Yeah, but I wasn't sure if I'd still be alive next time I came around .
05/02/2010 03:12:19 AM
- 1082 Views
05/02/2010 12:20:04 AM
- 1150 Views
I don't anyone will target you with a night action tonight, frankly.
05/02/2010 03:14:26 AM
- 1143 Views