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I might buy the last part, but not the first few things. Aemon Send a noteboard - 26/07/2010 03:25:08 AM
1) Not all totems are created equal, and they don't spin unless they were physically designed to do so. Like Cobb/Mal's top. The mass/weight/design of the top is the importantelement here. It's the fact that in a dream, the dreamer can will his top to continue spinning. If it doesn't continue spinning and drops eventually, then he is reassured that you are not in dreamscape.


What does willing something to continue spinning have to do with the concept of a totem? I mean, if you can change things in the dream by willing it so, why not just try to move something telekinetically, or something? I was under the impression that they couldn't change things if they were in someone else's dream, or else what was the point of the zero g fight? Just will the guy to fly through the wall or something. Regardless, whether you can or can't will things to happen isn't the point. The point is, I thought the concept of a totem had to do with someone else not being able to accurately recreate your own totem. I don't see how that has anything to do with willing something to happen.

ie. Arthur's totem is a loaded, six-sided red die. In reality, it should keep landing on the side where all the weight is distributed. However, if it keeps rolling random numbers, he is still dreaming.


See, this would sort of make sense. Someone sees he carries a die, re-creates a normal die. . .but Arthur's isn't a normal die, and therefore the new one behaves differently, thus alerting him. No one would create a top that never stops spinning though. That's an obvious indicator of a dream.

2) A "kick" is not just about the SENSATION of falling. It can also be drowning (like when Arthur pushed Cobb into a bathtub filled with water) or other events/actions that is programmed to wake you up. When they went in Fischer's dream, all the kicks were programmed to coincide with the Edith Piaf song “Non, Je Ne Regrette Rien”. Then the dreamers would choose whether to go along with the kick or stay. Think of the kick as your only chance to get out of a locked room with no entrance/exits.


I was under the impression that the song was to alert them that the kick was coming. You're saying that it's not a kick if they don't hear the song though, which would account for why the van rolling over didn't count as a kick. Fair enough. How are they able to choose whether they get kicked though? I don't remember that ever being explained, and it doesn't make a lot of sense to me. In real life, if someone slaps you, you either wake up or you don't. You don't have a choice in the matter.

And dropping off the ledge was not the kick. It was the blast that was going through Fischer's subconscious that was the kick (heart defribillator->hotel elevator explosion->van crashing into water). Ariadne rode the "kick" wave back to reality.


Sure, I understand. The environment going crazy was indicative of what was happening above, and Ariadne had to choose whether to go along with it or not. Still don't understand how they can choose that, though.

3) How do you know if they didn't spend months/years in the 2nd and 3rd levels of the dream? Maybe the movie showed us the final events (action scenes) instead of everything that led up to them because it didn't really serve a purpose. HOWEVER, the time differential -slash- "screw-up" was explained in the movie. In the 2nd level of the dream (hotel), Cobb and his team revealed to Fischer that he was dreaming and tricked him into thinking his subconscious defenses were the extractors and the true extractors were his protectors. They tricked him into helping them which sped everything up. They did not have to spend so much time building a relationship with Fischer.


All that explains is why they were able to complete their mission faster, it doesn't explain the time differential. As to how I know they didn't spend ten years down there, well, I guess it's theoretically possible, but it doesn't make sense. I can't remember enough specifics to make an airtight argument, but there were no clues that they spent a long time down there. Everything they said and did made it seem like they were just arriving.

Saito was stuck in Limbo, and as it was seen with the Cobb/Mal flashback, time moves faster. That's the key here. It's not time that's moving slower IN the dreamworld but faster compared to the waking world. That's why Saito, Cobb, and Mal had time to grow old and such in their fabricated world. That's why Cobb says he was "an old man, filled with regrets".

Cobb was searching for Saito for 20 years (I think) in the dream world, and finally washed up ashore to Saito's subconscious core. But, Cobb knew himself to be a dream construct, so he maintained his young appearance.


The first part makes sense. It might even explain the time differential. Perhaps everyone else woke up on the plane just a few minutes after they went under, and Cobb/Saito woke up at the end of the flight. It didn't seem that way to me, but again, I'd have to see it again to be sure of my facts. Still, what's the deal about Cobb knowing he was a construct? How would he know that any more than Saito would? And why can dream constructs maintain youth?

I hope that helped. :D


Some. Thanks for the reply. :) I don't know as if I really argued very well because I'm having a hard time remembering all the relevant parts. Maybe I'll watch it again and then come back to this.
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