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Re: perspective ßelals Girl Send a noteboard - 11/08/2011 07:39:30 PM
but how much can it divine from this mindreading? it doesn't know human behaviour. often when i see animals playing it can look aggressive...they're just playing. depending on how insightful this mindreading is, it could misinterpret what it saw or perhaps it isn't as definite as "i'm shit scared i didn't hurt it why is it after me?" it might just be a swirling sensation of emotion. and i really couldn't say either way as i've only seen it once.


Both times it's been used it's managed to communicate rudimentary information between the two. This leads me to believe the alien can dtermine whether the random mailmen and housewives it's killing are malicious or not.

i was more making the point that this alien doesn't see humans in the same way as another human because it probably can't empathise with a species whose only contact it's had with it is to be tortured by it

and its right and wrong may well be different from a humans, it's an alien from an alien culture you can't judge it by human standards in the same way you wouldn't judge an animal by human standards



But that was the big reveal. It was set up at first as a Cloverfield-type monster or perhaps a genuninely malicious alien, like the ones in "Independence Day" or "Signs." Then, it was reveal to be a big, scared, ET. A sentient being, who originally meant no harm, but was lashing out because it was hurt and is scared. And that's fine, but then, if that's the kind of being they're going to make the alien be, I'm going to judge it by the appropriate standards.

The fact that the kid was able to get through to it at all is a big indicator that that was the kind of monster it was. It had morals and emotions, and by appealing to them directly and relating his own experiences, the kid got it to remember them.

i dunno, does it matter where the blame lies or if there's blame? a person's mum/whatever is no less dead if they're murdered or accidently ran over or committed suicide etc.


Because if this is about "forgiveness," as you say (I disagree, but more on that later), then yes, forgiveness should be the lesson the kid learned and is relating to the alien.

Even if it's not, even if it's just about dealing with pain, the "scale" between the two bad things is too different. There's a reason you don't have someone whose dog got run over by a truck comfort someone whose entire family just got tortured and murdered. Yes, they're both bad things, and yes, the way you would learn to move past them in the end is ultimately the same, but the scale of the tragedy is different, and to have them compared and, even worse, have the more wronged party BUY it, stetches my suspension of disbelief to the breaking point.

what i took away from the film is that despite being hurt it doesn't matter the reason it's self destructive to linger beyond the grieving period


"Grieving period?" The kid certainly had one, but the alien was still actively in jeapordy. it's a clumsy comparision. I'm not saying you can't draw some parallels, like what you've done, just that it's very clumsy and requires a lot of reaching, and doesn't suit a simplistic ending like the one the movie gave us.

the alien forgave humanity and humanity had to forgive the alien in return who like that abused dog or attacked human i previously mentioned had been emotionally and physically tortured and traumatised and was lashing out. although we condemn its actions we must forgive them, you don't blame the alien you blame the airforce for torturing him in the first place


I blame the alien because the movie established that the alien is capable of reasoning and thus capable of being held responsible for its actions. Yes, the military was to blame as well, but that doesn't take the blame off the creature for the bad things it chose to do. The only way the blame would have been completely on the military is if it was established that the alien wasn't sentient, and therefore was indeed like an animal. Then, yes, it would be the military's fault alone for creating a monster and then not controling it. But that's not the kind of monster it was...which was a major point of the movie.

As for "forgiving humanity," I call bullshit. The alien didn't need to forgive "humanity," because "humanity" didn't do anything to it. A specific group of humans harmed it, and by blaming "humanity" instead of those responsible, the monster did a great deal of evil by harming innocents.

Humanity doesn't need to forgive the alien either...the specific people it harmed do. But they're either dead or the movie doesn't care about them, so we get no resolution there.

the difference with the POW example is that he's the same species and he ought to know better because he can empathise and he does know what he's doing is wrong in murdering innocents


And you expect me to believe that a species that has mastered inter-stellar travel doesn't have protocol for recognizing and dealing with other potential sentience species it might encounter? Hell, WE do (as evidenced by this movie's existence and the fact that you and I are even having this discussion) and we have never even had the chance to encounter a non-human "person," as it were. If the alien doesn't, then it and it's race are utter irresponsible dickheads. Just look what happened.
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