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I'll give this a go... fionwe1987 Send a noteboard - 10/06/2010 05:19:49 AM
...is what the "Dark One"'s goals are. It doesn't matter if it's Sauron/Morgoth, Shai'tan, Arawn, any of them. Yes, yes, they symbolize death. But when beings are personified and given kingdoms and agendas, those agendas start to sound silly. Okay, Morgoth, you conquered the world - what now? You can't really CREATE things. Doesn't existence become meaningless and boring?

Although the series was completely juvenile and stupid in a lot of ways, the second series of Dragonlance books showed this very well. Raistlin Majere managed to become a god, and the whole world was dead. How does one enjoy that, exactly? One doesn't.

Sanderson's Mistborn showed a good example of a "post-evil victory" world, but even then it turns out it wasn't really that.


With Tolkien, ultimate destruction was not so much the point as was control of Arda. Melkor never understood the extent to which Eru could fold his acts into His greater plan of creation. What he tried to do was similar to an adolescent messing up his bedroom to show mom that she isn't Big Boss anymore. He was trying to say he was his own man, and his own ideas, orders be damned.

And if you question what he would do after he won, shouldn't the same be asked of Manwe? After Sauron's defeat, there was no threat that would warrant his attention. Even Sauron was easily handled, if you take into account the sheer power of the Valar. Wouldn't it be more natural, more easy to understand, if Manwe allowed Dark Lords to keep flourishing now and then to keep himself and the Valar entertained?

But we accept that his motivation of ultimate Good is sound, because that appeals to our outlook. Perhaps Morgoth, with his "independence" and "non-conformity to authority" would appeal to people with other ideas of how the world should be run.

With the Creator and the Dark One, I always felt Good and Evil were adjectives applied to them because this was the simplest way for human beings to understand such alien powers whose goals and methods are beyond normal human comprehension.

Frankly, I wouldn't be surprised if what the Dark One objects to is not Creation, but the order and structure that it has (him being called the Lord of Chaos and all). It could be that the Pattern and the Wheel enforce structure on the Universe that is anathema to the existence of the Dark One. His desperation to disrupt this order and impose an environment conducive to him would then be similar to how we would attempt to rid a room of Carbon Monoxide before entering and inhabiting it.

Either way, it is not clear at all what Rand has to do to defeat the Dark One. Killing him is clearly not an option, based on what RJ said. Maybe some kind of compromise?

RJ once said that the concept of circular time did not appeal to him at all, that it represented a kind of stasis (echoing what Moridin later thinks). Maybe the series will end with the structured repetition of the Ages ended once and for all, the grater unpredictability of the new reality causing the DO to stop attempting to destroy it. Ishamael should be happy with this result too.
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The Dark One vs. the Creator - 09/06/2010 09:54:41 PM 1087 Views
What I never understand in any fantasy series... - 09/06/2010 10:22:13 PM 717 Views
utter evil always seems a bit shallow in the end - 09/06/2010 11:16:59 PM 562 Views
Especially if you're immortal - 10/06/2010 03:47:26 AM 537 Views
Here's another stumper for these things, but first - 10/06/2010 12:08:41 AM 606 Views
Without discussing theodicy (that's a CMB sort of discussion)... - 10/06/2010 03:53:31 AM 909 Views
I don't think RJ shows a balanced power system - 10/06/2010 12:23:03 PM 528 Views
It's name is the Creator, maby it's unable to destroy the DO? *NM* - 15/06/2010 09:02:12 AM 216 Views
I think I get the goal of the one in WoT though. *NM* - 10/06/2010 12:11:57 AM 225 Views
It's like Aerosmith said... - 10/06/2010 01:36:17 AM 519 Views
But Shai'tan is operating as though it's about the goal, not the journey. *NM* - 10/06/2010 03:55:27 AM 241 Views
That is his thought... - 11/06/2010 01:54:42 AM 457 Views
I agree that Shaitan must've been behind the "Crying/Crazy/Amazin'" songs *NM* - 10/06/2010 03:25:26 PM 299 Views
that's kind of the point... - 10/06/2010 04:19:30 AM 520 Views
This. - 10/06/2010 04:40:34 AM 535 Views
Exactly. I've been saying this for quite a while - 10/06/2010 10:29:01 PM 467 Views
I'll give this a go... - 10/06/2010 05:19:49 AM 582 Views
destroy the circular nature of the wheel, instead of the wheel - 11/06/2010 05:04:41 PM 454 Views
I don't agree with many of these people - I think the bad guys have plausible agendas - 10/06/2010 08:45:52 AM 503 Views
Personally I think the Wheel is the DOs prison not just an "eyesore" - 10/06/2010 12:29:13 PM 460 Views
Probably a chicken and egg scenario - 10/06/2010 03:29:34 PM 434 Views
probably! - 11/06/2010 02:18:29 AM 454 Views
As others said... - 10/06/2010 08:46:46 AM 464 Views
It could be that Dark One's goal is own death - 10/06/2010 02:18:13 AM 497 Views
Then why would he fight so hard? - 10/06/2010 03:54:55 AM 585 Views
I like this idea... - 10/06/2010 08:47:52 AM 506 Views
I don't think he can die - 10/06/2010 08:57:05 AM 524 Views
Well... - 10/06/2010 04:32:45 AM 570 Views
So... - 10/06/2010 08:49:48 AM 554 Views
Seems unlikely to me. - 10/06/2010 06:09:46 PM 545 Views
Re: Well... - 10/06/2010 11:00:07 PM 468 Views
Re: Well... - 11/06/2010 12:12:55 AM 483 Views
Re: Well... - 10/06/2010 11:10:55 PM 442 Views
Re: Well... - 11/06/2010 12:20:28 AM 447 Views
Re: Well... - 11/06/2010 01:34:33 AM 436 Views
Okay. - 11/06/2010 05:11:26 AM 418 Views
Re: Okay. - 11/06/2010 05:25:08 AM 478 Views
Oh, no. - 11/06/2010 06:26:55 AM 483 Views
OK - I get it! - 11/06/2010 04:45:49 PM 425 Views

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