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It all began.... DomA Send a noteboard - 07/07/2010 11:49:39 AM
then what do you think is happening there?

I'd like to hear from DomA especially, since he's insists that Demandred isn't Roedran.


... with Egwene.

She was using the presence of the Band as her excuse to keeping moving North at a fast pace (she intended all along to reach the Andoran border and get there her excuse to Travel, and declare war on Elaida). Remove the Band, and you remove the reason.

Several key people (incl. Lelaine and Sheriam) rather wanted to stall things. There is even a scene where Sheriam is forced to admit she agrees with Lelaine on this. Beonin was likely another who wanted to stall things.

The Hall had sent an Embassy to Roedran. We learned Egwene had no control over these embassies, and in fact she was getting only their reports when the Hall sat fit to let her know.

As we know, Siuan/Egwene were surprised that Roedran on his own could put up a plan like he did.

What I think happened is that the Rebel embassy in Lugard put him up to hiring the Band of the Red Hand to use it to unite Murandy (in truth, the main goal was to make them leave the AS rebels), on instructions from the Hall or a specific Sitter (it most likely would be Lelaine, the, but I think the whole Hall may have been involved). Fairly shortly after that Sheriam scene, Roedran sent an envoy secretely to Talmanes. I think the same "scheme" had for effect to send a bunch of northern nobles to the border.

Someone also put the Andoran High Seats up to the arrival of the Rebels. They named Dyelin regent and rushed south, long before it was even obvious the Rebel AS were coming toward Andor. This, I believe, is rather Elaida's doing, right after her conversation with Alviarin about the rebellion and her "secret". Elaida was advisor in Andor, and had agents there. She's the one who tipped the HS about the rebels in the south, and warnings about her displeasure should Andor get involved in the Tower conflict.

So chronologically:

> Egwene used with the Hall the Band as the excuse to move north, and keep moving.
> Elaida gave reasons to the Andoran HS to move south to block Egwene's path.
> Reports reached Roedran's court that Andoran armies were coming toward the border, which was decidedly odd, given that the Houses were currently fighting for the throne.... so they were coming to stop the AS army from entering Andor. Roedran was worried.
> The AS embassy in Lugard heard this and reported to the Hall, who did not pass the information to Egwene. Instead, they instructed the embassy to put a typical AS scheme (Elayne used much the same in Andor, with the Bordermen) to make Roedran hire the Band that he would use as a false threat to bring the Nobles and their retainers behind him, thus removing Egwene's excuse to keep moving, right before she faced a breaking roadblock with the Andoran nobles. In effect, Egwene was stalled, without options. It's no wonder Romanda and Lelaine (and Aran'gar) were so confident (and for the Sitters, so insistent Egwene let them handle the meeting...). They all thought Egwene would meet a major setback that day, and end up in the Hall's control. No more foolishness about moving to TV at top speed.

Alas for them, Siuan had seen the situation coming all along and hatched the plan to put Egwene in real control. Egwene committed the Hall to moving by making her plan public to non-AS and making promises (to Travel), and then she distracted the Hall's attention by creating another crisis (opening the Novices book to all women). As we know, that night she managed to get the Law of War proclaimed, but had lost the Band.

It appears the rebel embassy in Lugard is fuelling Roedran's delusions of grandeur and keeping him busy with obscure military treatises and such (including one that no one but Mat remembers... which speaks of scholars, for instance a Brown, being part of the embassy). The AS are probably running the show in truth in Lugard, making the "coalition" work etc. while leaving Roedran believe it's all his doing. It's long been a goal of the Tower to stabilize Murandy, as we know (from the Siuan/Elaida vs. Bryne story.. another clue Jordan gave us it's the AS who are behind it all).

What is Jordan up to with this?

Create a power base for Demandred? Come on! What could Demandred possibly want with an army of Murandians, barely united and not serving the Shadow? Clash with the Seanchan south, or Andor north? What for? Demandred wants to face Rand and oust Moridin. He can hardly do any of this with an army of non-channelling, badly trained Murandians that will never openly join the Shadow... He'd loose this army to the Light soon enough...

Create a secondary power base for Aran'gar? That's a possibility. Sheriam was quite possibly involved, there may be BA among the embassy, and it would be more up Aran'gar alley to simply use Roedran now to create chaos/confusion in other Chosen's plans.

But I prefer my third option. What Jordan prepared is a late-in-the-game power base for Padan Fain, a new "Shadar Logoth" in the making for the LB. Lugard is a dissolute city in a divided country, where no noble trust the others much, or is much interested in anything but their local, petty interests. It's fertile ground for Mordeth, especially when the job of bringing these people together as an army is already done! He knows Lugard and Murandy very well, of course, being from there himself. Jordan conveniently made Fain move to the area recently (last seen in Far Madding) and made him lose his last White Lions and Cairhienin rebels. In Far Madding, where he could hear about events in Murandy and get interested, especially that his powers have grown a lot recently, and he can use the Murandians for pretty nasty stuff now. Roedran is also lazy and dissolute and now has delusions of grandeur, a perfect tool for Mordeth.

Etzel's objections are totally irrelevant: first of all, Talmanes never got close to Lugard - he always dealt secretely with agents from the King (no one was supposed to know the King was using the Band!!) Secondly, Fain was in Far Madding in WH and would not have moved to Lugard and made his way to Roedran before the Band's mission for Roedran was over.

So, I think that after a long string of failures through the series, Jordan planned to have Fain succeed at creating an "evil of SL" style power base. Murandy will be turned into a new Aridhol, and Jordan made all this happen behind-the-scenes, as he intended this to come as a surprise. But we got a few clues that there used to be "supernatural" nasties associated to SL in the Trolloc Wars. The stories speak of Mordeth's "unnatural assassins" and all.

This power-base is conveniently close enough to get involved in Andor, where the "big reunion" and the launch of the LB seems set to happen at the end of TOM, also right on Rand's kindgom's doorstep (Illian), and on the path north of the Seanchan. Perfect position for Mordeth - right in the middle to interfere in many of the Light's and the Shadow's plans. A wildcard.




This message last edited by DomA on 07/07/2010 at 11:52:01 AM
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If Demandred isn't Roedran (or controlling Roedran) - 07/07/2010 10:08:19 AM 1654 Views
Others suggest... - 07/07/2010 10:31:33 AM 725 Views
Re: Others suggest... - 07/07/2010 10:46:31 AM 596 Views
Yeah... - 07/07/2010 11:03:21 AM 635 Views
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The thing is... - 07/07/2010 01:30:11 PM 567 Views
Re: The thing is... - 07/07/2010 03:24:34 PM 479 Views
As said... - 07/07/2010 03:56:20 PM 518 Views
Re: The thing is... - 07/07/2010 04:27:11 PM 468 Views
I think - 08/07/2010 09:00:46 AM 582 Views
It all began.... - 07/07/2010 11:49:39 AM 758 Views
The idea is... - 07/07/2010 12:39:19 PM 565 Views
No, Etzel... - 07/07/2010 01:03:20 PM 605 Views
I disagree... - 07/07/2010 01:18:11 PM 538 Views
And besides... - 07/07/2010 01:49:04 PM 543 Views
Fain and Slayer - 07/07/2010 08:47:48 PM 513 Views
Fain playing a significant role in the LB would too much allude to LotR, IMO. *NM* - 07/07/2010 11:28:29 PM 498 Views
As would Moiraine returning. - 08/07/2010 02:13:25 AM 571 Views
It depends on Fain's role... - 08/07/2010 08:34:27 AM 430 Views
But what does "wildcard" really mean? - 08/07/2010 03:19:16 PM 442 Views
for a long time i thought shara and their tattooed channeles. - 09/07/2010 05:24:16 PM 450 Views
Fain doesn't make sense from a timing stand point - 07/07/2010 04:46:00 PM 491 Views
Indeed... - 08/07/2010 08:42:45 AM 456 Views
agreed - 09/07/2010 05:56:23 PM 423 Views
One reason the Murandy-New SL theory makes sense... - 07/07/2010 07:19:56 PM 449 Views
That's most likely just coincidence. *NM* - 07/07/2010 11:30:00 PM 214 Views
Riiiight... because WoT is chock full of coincidences. - 08/07/2010 02:12:47 AM 428 Views
In any case... - 08/07/2010 08:31:19 AM 477 Views
Re: That's most likely just coincidence. - 08/07/2010 02:13:36 AM 458 Views
They followed Fain all the way to Caemlyn and shot arrows at Rand - 08/07/2010 04:21:14 AM 424 Views
Yeah, I agree, Roedran isn't under Fain's control. *NM* - 08/07/2010 08:38:15 AM 306 Views
Re: It all began.... - 08/07/2010 12:11:02 PM 425 Views
Murandy just doesn't fit Demandred. Also, Sammael could have been wrong. - 07/07/2010 07:57:19 PM 685 Views
Here's another possibility - 08/07/2010 02:21:25 AM 523 Views
Another possibility for Demandred - 08/07/2010 03:20:27 AM 441 Views
What if Demandred's base is... - 08/07/2010 04:52:40 AM 470 Views
my problem with this - 08/07/2010 04:59:35 AM 458 Views
Well, I tend to agree with you - 09/07/2010 12:27:04 AM 413 Views
I doubt that you could that easily control the Madmen. *NM* - 08/07/2010 08:44:42 AM 191 Views
Unlikely... maybe even impossible - 08/07/2010 10:14:24 AM 446 Views
Definitely possible. - 08/07/2010 02:06:57 PM 439 Views
Now here's a man with... vision! - 09/07/2010 12:24:13 AM 416 Views
not really - 10/07/2010 12:25:31 PM 423 Views
That's factually incorrect - 12/07/2010 12:41:48 AM 458 Views
yes, factually incorrect by you - 12/07/2010 08:02:23 AM 479 Views
- 12/07/2010 04:40:45 PM 411 Views
I think Lanfears' estimation is incorrect. - 13/07/2010 04:15:44 PM 450 Views

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