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Yup, I think they are one and the same. Mik Send a noteboard - 23/07/2010 08:21:20 AM
You might want to read a thread on Dragonmount called "Equal yet not" from page 6 and onwards. I broke a lance for it there.

In a nuttshell;
I think it's how Elan Morin "betrayed all hope". He utterly gave himself away to Shai'tan. As soon as the possibility arose (back when pure chance spawned the first Myrddraal in the War of Shadow), I think Ishamael was able to link to a Fade.

I think that's why Ishamael is called Ba'alzamon by the Trollocs during the War of Shadows (see the note that was written only 200 years after the breaking from Rosel of Esam (sp?)). After all... Trollocs give names to Myrddraal. The funny thing is... the only Trolloc names we ever see are "Narg" (a true gutteral Trolloc name) and "Ba'alzamon" (an old tongue name back when Trollocs were still developing (deteriorating might be a more fitting term thoug) their own ..errmm.. language.

I think it's the secret Rosel of Esam hid in her High Chant poem that survived the breaking;
"Heart of the Dark. Ba’alzamon. Name hidden within name shrouded by name. Secret buried within secret cloaked by secret. Betrayer of Hope. Ishamael betrays all hope..."
To me, the 'shrouded by name' and 'cloaked by secret' refer to the Myrddraal part of what Ba'alzamon truly is.

There are also hints in how the Nae'blis his position is described: "but half a step below the Great Lord". Not three steps. Not one. Nope sir: HALF a step.
If anyone of the Chosen would realise what that entails, they'd all be running for the hills instead of competing for the Nae'blis position.
But we all know that Shai'tan does not share. He's the uber-control freak. The only one Shai'tan makes Nae'blis is as much of himself as he can this side of Creation.

At the start of the War of Shadows, that wasn't much, so the link to Ishamael is hardly perfect. But after some testing (aka Slayer; 2 bodies/ 2 personalities/ 1 living soul) and after having more power and after millenia of TP use by Ishamael (I think that means there is less of creation remeaning in the person), that link could be perfected when Ishamael needed transmigration.

Enter Taims body + a fade body.
One did live and one 'neverborn'.
Strip Taim of soul and mind.
Tranmigrate whats left of Ishamaels living mind (after millenia of TP use) into Taim's body and what's left of his dark soul into Taims body.
Link that to a Myrddraal body in the same way that was done with the experminent we lovingly call Slayer.
What do you get?

The perfect Nae'Blis. A Nae'Blis that is as close as Shai'tan can get this side of Creation (being the dark counterpart of creation). It's the only Myrddraal with a truly living mind and that's why this one can channel. Per Moraines words in TEoTW you need a living mind to be able to channel. RJ didn't put this in the text for nothing!

Well.. there is more. Lot's more. Like how Shaidar Haran almost misspoke when he was talking to the gars. That was when the new and improved Nae'blis was still comming to terms with what he now was and almost said he would give aran'gar to the Myrddraal instead of 'to my brothers'.

Like I said...read "Equal yet not" over at Dmount. And even that isn't the whole of it.

Cheerio,
Mik

Edit: added link (for a good laugh or some serious insspiration. :P)


I am sure the idea has been brought up before, but I would like to hear you guys' thoughts on the chances that Shadar Haran and Moridin are one in the same just as Luc/Isam?

Mik ~ Ishamaels halfmad 'brother'

Death dances in my footsteps....
Equal yet not over at Dragonmount
This message last edited by Mik on 23/07/2010 at 08:32:57 AM
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Moridin & Shadar Haran - 22/07/2010 08:14:27 PM 1880 Views
No... - 22/07/2010 08:22:52 PM 1260 Views
Re: No... - 22/07/2010 09:31:35 PM 1146 Views
Re: No...(en garde, Etzellius Maximus!) - 23/07/2010 08:38:26 AM 1151 Views
Well, I already talked more about it below - 23/07/2010 09:17:10 AM 1265 Views
Re: Well, I already talked more about it below - 23/07/2010 11:29:08 AM 1101 Views
Yup, I think they are one and the same. - 23/07/2010 08:21:20 AM 1411 Views
This idea is hardly vindicable - 23/07/2010 09:12:14 AM 1130 Views
Au contraire. - 23/07/2010 11:23:09 AM 1260 Views
But why... - 23/07/2010 11:32:25 AM 1073 Views
Re: But why... - 23/07/2010 12:01:00 PM 1168 Views
Again. RJ fooled you. - 23/07/2010 12:15:26 PM 1174 Views
I think it would have to work this way: - 23/07/2010 03:10:59 PM 1102 Views
Your reasoning falls apart right at the start, even though there is some truth to the rest, I think. - 23/07/2010 04:22:22 PM 1190 Views
Um not quite - 25/07/2010 05:47:22 AM 1039 Views
Hehehe. True, but the mental image still helps. - 25/07/2010 08:29:18 AM 1414 Views
Re: Hehehe. True, but the mental image still helps. - 25/07/2010 08:32:10 AM 1412 Views
I think your evidence is pretty weak... - 26/07/2010 10:14:01 AM 1019 Views
Why don't you answer some of the issues I raised then, instead of keeping it vague..? - 26/07/2010 11:58:02 AM 1120 Views
Re: Why don't you answer some of the issues I raised then, instead of keeping it vague..? - 26/07/2010 12:18:51 PM 1104 Views
Re: Why don't you answer some of the issues I raised then, instead of keeping it vague..? - 26/07/2010 12:43:53 PM 1050 Views
Frankly, I don't see any similarity... - 26/07/2010 01:57:56 PM 1084 Views
Re: Frankly, I don't see any similarity... - 26/07/2010 04:09:52 PM 978 Views
The problem is... - 26/07/2010 04:27:50 PM 939 Views
No problem at all, but your unwillingness to accept the possibilty after all these years. - 27/07/2010 11:38:10 AM 1038 Views
I already answered all this... - 27/07/2010 11:46:36 AM 1059 Views
Yeah. And as proven earlier your answers are flat-out wrong. - 27/07/2010 01:17:36 PM 1156 Views
I think we have to agree to disagree - 27/07/2010 01:34:34 PM 1002 Views
Agreed then. - 27/07/2010 02:03:52 PM 1125 Views
Thanks for those answers. Here's how wrong they actually are: - 26/07/2010 01:54:44 PM 1083 Views
No problem - 26/07/2010 02:30:45 PM 1139 Views
Why does that scene matter? - 26/07/2010 04:16:33 PM 1040 Views
Dunno, you have to ask Mik about this. *NM* - 26/07/2010 04:23:19 PM 568 Views
Why the half answer? Here's my full answer and the questions you missed..again.. - 26/07/2010 05:14:00 PM 1197 Views
Just to understand you correctly... - 26/07/2010 05:33:46 PM 1042 Views
Sure..I'll answer your questions again.. "quid pro quo"? - 27/07/2010 12:43:21 PM 1110 Views
Well, kudos to you, if that idea turns out to be right - 27/07/2010 01:27:05 PM 1054 Views
Re: Well, kudos to you, if that idea turns out to be right - 27/07/2010 01:56:32 PM 1002 Views
The DO has control over Moridin... - 27/07/2010 02:04:50 PM 913 Views
Uhh. Thanks ..I guess. - 27/07/2010 01:57:38 PM 1149 Views
I almost want the theory to be true, but one quick thing: - 26/07/2010 03:53:04 PM 1039 Views
Re: I almost want the theory to be true, but one quick thing: - 26/07/2010 04:18:40 PM 913 Views
True, but if they're ordering other people to do it anyway... - 26/07/2010 04:51:18 PM 931 Views
One should also remember... - 26/07/2010 05:06:36 PM 960 Views
Eh? - 26/07/2010 05:30:20 PM 978 Views
But that the killing stopped, doesn't mean at all that Moridin and SH are one creature. *NM* - 26/07/2010 05:35:02 PM 1048 Views
Give me a better reason? Why did RJ make the timing fit and hid it so far apart? - 26/07/2010 05:36:28 PM 1073 Views
I think... - 26/07/2010 05:48:21 PM 882 Views
Re: I almost want the theory to be true, but one quick thing: - 26/07/2010 05:22:46 PM 1096 Views
Re: This idea is hardly vindicable - 27/07/2010 04:07:53 PM 995 Views
= - Oh and has anyone given thought to Hopper = Bela? - 27/07/2010 09:17:18 PM 904 Views
Thanks! *bows and tips wide-brimmed hat* - 28/07/2010 07:54:05 AM 1142 Views
Not the same individual - 24/07/2010 02:16:01 PM 1011 Views
Re: Not the same individual - 24/07/2010 06:07:10 PM 943 Views
Aww Dom. I really hoped you were on the same page.. - 25/07/2010 09:38:35 AM 1199 Views

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