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Re: Apparently... DomA Send a noteboard - 31/07/2010 02:13:12 AM
The original prologue of AMoL was split, one fitting part in TGS (mostly with PoV related to Rand's plotline), the other part in ToM. Therefore the "dead mule", which RJ wanted to include, wasn't seen in TGS, prologue. Consequently, I think we will see various PoV of characters in ToM, prologue, which didn't really appear in TGS. Those PoV will basically prelude the main plotlines in ToM, namely Perrin's, Mat's, likely Lan's, etc, and set the tone for the book.



That sounds about right, except Brandon likely added a few scenes to the original prologue now. For instance, the prologue scene that set up Perrin's story line has already been used (Faile killing Masema, as this happened a few hours before his first scene in TGS). Brandon possibly moved a Perrin-related scene from the early original AMOL to the prologue of TOM, and the same for Mat's storyline (unless there was a Caemlyn-related scene already in there which is possible, as in chapter 1 of TGS, Rand thinks of Elayne and her sudden relief. The Elayne scene related to that may have been cut from the prologue and moved to the TOM prologue, unless Rand's mention was the set up, and we were supposed to pick up with Elayne chapters that would shed light on this later in the original AMOL).


I guess that there will be 4-6 PoV again.


Perhaps a few more than that, as Brandon has described the book as going in many more directions than TGS did. Brandon seems to have kept mostly the prologue scenes necessary to set up the Rand/Egwene story lines, with the Perrin one that he couldn't avoid, since it went before his first scene. It seems there wasn't a scene setting up the Mat storyline (as it would have been in TGS too). It could mean he cut out of TGS quite a bit more than half of RJ's original prologue, that likely dealt a lot with minor story lines, as usual in recent prologues, plus a few "set up" scenes.

I think a Galad PoV in the WC camp is a very safe bet, since it would nicely link to Perrin's plotline and give a quick update on the WC.


An extremely safe bet, especially since Galad/the WC have been a prologue feature recently, like Ituralde who got his final prologue scene in TGS, before he joined a "main story line". It sounds very likely Galad had his as well as the progress in the WC storyline was developped the same way. That final scene before Galad joins a main story line will now appear in TOM. That scene would take place about a week before we left Perrin in TGS (thus it makes sense to keep it in the prologue), and would set up their later encounter. The scene might be set around the time Galad reaches the Jehannah road, which he will do a week or more before Perrin does. It would set up what (the Seanchan armies all over this area, of course) prevents Galad from continuing east then north as he planned. This makes a lot of sense, as it would anticipate Perrin's arrival to the road (likely to be his first scene in TOM) where he'd meet similar problems. It would be quite in Jordan's style (if we look at the original intent) to show Galad running into problems, to make us anticipate Perrin will have similar soon and his loss of Travelling is more important than he thinks.

A complementary prologue scene to Galad's could well be a post-Malden Morgase scene. We haven't got any scene of Morgase catching up with Lini/Tallanvor/Gill, and now that scene is set in the past in Perrin's storyline (like Galad's, very likely).

The chapter could end with a message to Galad that Perrin's group is nearby.


Too early, I think. Perrin has quite a lot of weeks to catch up to Mat. It's very doubtful his story line begins almost when he meets with Galad. I rather expect something more akin to the way Gawyn joined Egwene's camp, ie: the meeting with Galad will happen in the first third of the story line, but there might be one or two Galad chapters set before. If Galad met Perrin almost immediately, it makes less sense not to have kept this as a surprise. "Spoiling" the surprise suggests there's some build up, and the fact they bump into each other will be a suprise to Perrin/Galad but not to us.

We also know that Slayer will be tied to Perrin again. Therefore he could have a PoV then as well.


Maybe. I doubt he will have a POV, but he could be in a scene with a Forsaken or some such.

The prologue scenes often refer one another, for instance an early POV will raise some things which a later prologue scene picks up (we saw some of that with Tylee vs. the sul'dam scenes in TGS, but more classic would be the Forsaken POVs in LOC. When one Forsaken appear, there's often been more than one Forsaken POV through the prologue)

So, in TGS the Graendal POV also set up what went on with Mesaana/Demandred (making it unlikely either appeared again, at least in the original prologue), but only referred to Aran'gar and to Cyndane/Moghedien and the fact they occasionally were in the south trying to fulfill Moridin's orders re: Perrin/Mat.

It would be like RJ to have "echoed" that comment with a scene of either Cyndane or Moghedien (unlikely both of them). Personally, I'm pretty convinced Cyndane is the one involved with Perrin, and Moghedien with Caemlyn and Mat.

So we could have for instance a mysterious and foreboding Cyndane/Slayer scene in the prologue, since both are likely to be involved in Perrin's storyline and we are missing a mysterious threat referred to in the blurb. For example, we could see Cyndane giving orders to Slayer, after the attempt to have Masema kill Perrin has failed.

Since Forsaken often appear in prologues, there might also be a Aran'gar PoV telling us of her new power base. Or one of Moridin's pets, Cyndane and Moghedien, are seen gathering DF.


Well, perhaps a gathering DF scene (that would be DF relevant to yet another story line, of course, e.g. DF that might become involved with Elayne, or Lan or etc.), which could also have musins about planning to send Slayer against Perrin soon, or at least the recent (KOD) efforts of this Forsaken toward either Mat or Perrin (depending which of the pair has this POV). I would not be surprised that Forsaken scene solves who appeared as Rand to Masema (either by musing Forsaken X has totally failed with Masema and now Moridin ordered Cyndane to get involved with Perrin and kill him, or by revealing Cyndane/Lanfear was behind Masema all along). Again, this would tie-up with the Masema scene and finish the revelation he had "visions" that obviously aren't real, and this would be typical of how RJ wrote the recent prologues.

I agree Aran'gar is another extremely likely POV, for many reasons. First of all, there's a "hole" there. Graendal refers to her and the alliance in the TGS prologue, which makes it more likely there's an Aran'gar scene to echo that, and then it was part of the KOD "climax" that she was forced to flee, and finally Siuan refers to this in her first meeting with Egwene in TGS. What's missing? The Aran'gar scene in the middle of all this.

New power base? I don't think so... I don't think it will happen, and if it does, it would be too early in the prologue for this (too out of synch with other prologue scenes written by RJ, which were all set so far before chapter 1 of TGS) as in that timeline Aran'gar just got ousted from the rebel camp. If she's there we'll rather just see what she's decided to do after fleeing the rebels, and why she took Delana with her. There may have been a second Graendal scene (from Aran'gar's POV) in the original prologue. It has happened before (in LOC, notably. We had early a Demandred scene getting orders from the DO, and late in the prologue was the complementary scene with Mesaana getting the orders from Demandred with Graendal and Semirhage). Graendal referring to Aran'gar and their alliance, and how useful it's been with her with the Rebels erc. and then later in the prologue meeting Aran'gar who just lost her power base would fit the same pattern. This would also avoid any confusion, since the presence of Aran'gar and the reference to the fact she's just fled the rebels would immediately situate us (and the fact this happens long before Graendal dies).

Furthermore, I guess that Elayne (or another character in Caemlyn like Birgitte) will likely have a PoV in the prologue, maybe preparing Elayne's coronation and/or interrogating the DF; this would link to Mat's arrival in Caemlyn.


Hmm... perhaps, but that'd be a scene Brandon moved to the prologue after the split. If there was an Elayne scene in the prologue (given the timeline of the first Rand scene and the reference to her relief), it likely concerns the Bordermen finally passing south of Caemlyn. If it sets up Mat's arrival to Csemlyn, it most likely deals with the arrival of the first half of the Band in Caemlyn. It works in both cases, and a reference to the Bordermen seems likely as they really came out of nowhere in TGS - it seems obvious the "set up scenes" for their presence in Far Madding were in AMOL but with the split got pushed to TOM, and its return to the same timeline.

Somehow, I don't expect Mat to appear too early in the book. He's too much ahead of Perrin, and unless Brandon skips forward a few weeks after Elayne's victory against Arymilla (can we really skip that much, and pick up only after weeks interrogating the DF and all? It doesn't sound so likely...), it seems he has set up in/around Caemlyn to deal with before Mat's arrival. Elayne scenes (DF, coronation, new stuff), perhaps BT-related scenes as well, the Bordermen, the arrival of the first half of the Band. There's also Pevara, whose visit to the BT happens before Mat's arrival and is now confirmed to appear in TOM. There's the rebel embassy's coming. There's Duhara as well (not likely nothing with Elayne happened, since Mat arrives only weeks later and Duhara didn't go back to the WT), and it would be about time we learn a bit more about the sisters at the Silver Swan.

Having Mat chapters early in the book would be extremely confusing, as at the moment, he's way too much out of synch with Caemlyn story lines. Brandon has to bring Elayne in synch with the day Mat arrives in the city first. So I expect Perrin, Elayne and many secondary story lines to open the book, and Mat will have his first chapter past chapter 5 (if not 10).

Besides that, I think there definitely will be a PoV from Lan or one of the men in his army, giving us an update on the army and the Borderlands.



Possibly. I think Lan is the main character who "goes on his own" for a while, and to whom Brandon decided to give a "sidekick style" new "semi-important" character he created. I think the character Brandon created himself will be someone near Lan, who will see Lan's progression from the outside, instead of always/ever show things from Lan's POV. I can't see which other important character will be "on his own" for a while - not Perrin/Mat for sure, and not Egwene or Elayne, and not Min, or Tuon, or Faile... not Loial either )no need for a new character, when we have his wife or his mother as counterpoint POV, if needed). So it's either Lan, the most likely choice, or maybe Aviendha, but with her I don't see any need to get an outside POV, when her new story line was developped all from her POV, and we need to see things from her eyes some more (the Rhuidean stuff, especially). Lan, however, we've always seen from the outside, and while a POV down the line seems likely, his whole story line through his POV sounds unlikely. It seems obvious a secondary POV character would be useful in this story line, where we know no one but Lan himself.

Moiraine is another "on her own", but this would mean a Finn POV, and that would be way too revealing, IMO. This would set up the Mat story line nicely, though, to get a glimpse of what the Finns really know about his coming... But it sounds unlikely. A Moiraine POV sounds unlikely as well.

Maybe there will already be a skirmish with Shadowspawn or more ominous sings that the Shadowspawn armies will attack soon in full force. This would nicely fit with the PoV of Renald in TGS, prologue.


It would. There wasn't enough "mood setting" scenes in the TGS prologue, it's as if one or two was cut, to complete the "gathering storm" imagery and make it a leitmotiv. The Lan story line scene could serve this purpose, since the Renald scene mentionned people going north to join the army assembling there. Again, typical of RJ, if later in the original prologue we got a scene with someone who is with this army (I doubt it will be a Lan POV, somehow. I think RJ was keeping a Lan POV for a more meaningful moment, set later in the storyline.... my secret wish is that the first time we hear/see the invasion from the Blight, this will be the Lan POV.. it would be awesome that he sees his "private war" finally starting).

Maybe we will also already see what Fain is up to in the prologue, what happens at the BT or Loial with the other Ogier, though I guess we won't already see all that in the prologue.


A Fain POV is certainly a possibility, but it depends a lot what he is up to and how RJ planned to use his reappearance. If Fain has started to set up a new "power base" or preparing for the LB (so to speak), then he's very likely to appear in the prologue, as this will need a bit of set up and catching up of how he went from the events in FM to wherever he is/is up to now. If RJ rather planned to make Fain reappear on his own in the WH style, we won't get any clue about Fain's whereabouts until he suddenly re appears.

The first chapter might be a Tuon PoV then after the WT raid, since we know that the wind starts in Seanchan.


That sounds most unlikely. This would happen well over a month after the first Perrin scene. This would get extremely confusing. It's gonna be hard enough as it is to figure out what takes place when in TOM versus TGS. If Brandon returns to late events in TGS long before Mat and Perrin (and Elayne) catch up to that timeline, we'll rapidly get completely lost. I'm a bit suprised you suggest something like this for chapter one but find that a scene with Graendal that we could very easily situate before she dies would be "too confusing".

I don't think Tuon will re appear early (I think it's possible she isn't much or at all in TOM, for myself. My guess: if she gets involved in the "reunion" climax of the book, she'll have set up chapters and a proper follow-up to the WT attack, starting by mid book or so. If she isn't involved in the climax and the Seanchan stuff get solved during TG only, my bet is that she won't be in TOM at all and Brandon will return to the Seanchan storyline only in AMOL. There isn't time for much development about the Seanchan/Rand/Egwene situation in TOM. Rand/Egwene have been described as having bridge chapters to the climax - and forcibly many scenes in the climax section) - that doesn't point to much need for Tuon, unless she shows up at the "big event that starts TG" - but if she does and it solves the Seanchan/WT/Rand conflict, RJ would have no "light-light" problem left for the timeline of TG, and this sounds unlikely to me. Brandon may not wait until Mat/Perrin/Elayne are in synch with those events at the end of TGS to continue Rand/Egwene/Tuon's story lines, but he almost certainly will wait until Perrin has got closer to Mat's timeline, Elayne has caught up to Mat, and Mat's story line has progressed a bit, to avoid creating too much confusion. Early second half of the novel stuff, I would say - and the first half will deal with all the "catching up", not only for Perrin, Elayne, Mat, but also for all the secondary characters Brandon pushed out of TGS and kept for TOM.

My other guess for the prologue might be an Alviarin POV (or scene). In TGS, there was a "mystery", involving the fact she was late for her punishment by Silviana, and Egwene later sees her hurrying up. I get the feeling this wasn't originally a "mystery" but rather a counterpoint to a previous scene from the prologue, where we'll learn how she intends to act after that Talene has not showed up when summonded, and this confirms someone is hunting the BA. My guess would be on a visit from either Mesaana or perhaps more likely Shaidar Haran (only that could really delay her, I think). This could be the counterpoint scene to Mesaana's comment about "more and more are joining us" in the prologue. The other reason I think an Alviarin POV is likely is that Brandon needs to set up the Shadow's side of the BA hunt to build up to their escape, and also we didn't get our "wrap up" of the BA hunt we used to get in the recent prologue. Obviously, it can't be a hunter POV now, and the ball was in the Shadow's camp anyway, and this points to an Alviarin scene, with or without Mesaana.

Overall, my guess is that most of the remaining prologue scenes will be set before chapter one of TGS in the timeline (as it's what they must have been when their were all part of the same prologue...), and Brandon could have moved a few more scenes he's cut and moved into TGS and which are set too early to use later in the book. Having them all in the prologue would help dispell any confusion. This could mean there's no Perrin/Mat set up scene at all (beside indirectly, like an Elayne/Band scene, or a the Galad and/or Morgase scene). The TGS prologue scenes picked up with the climaxes and epilogue of KOD (Tylee arriving to meet Tuon, the aftermath of Semirhage's capture etc. ) and what seems to be missing is a follow up to the Taim/Pevara scene. It's possible there's a follow-up scene for that in the TOM prologue, or at least something related that picks up with the Taim is a DF issue, like a Logain scene where he muses on his anger that Rand rejected his suspicions.

I don't think Loial will be in the prologue. It's too early. He wouldn't have reached the Great Stump yet when chapter 1 of TGS starts. Unless he has a scene on the road, I expect Loial to re appear all of sudden later in the book (he'll appear in TOM for sure, IMO, though).

This message last edited by DomA on 31/07/2010 at 02:34:26 AM
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