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Re: That's not what I meant... DomA Send a noteboard - 25/09/2010 09:49:17 PM
But Jason clearly said was (paraphrased): The last book ended with Rand on DM, looking at the sky and asking "why". This book begins with Rand coming down the mountain, like Moses, to have a long overdue chat with someone.


That's terrible, but I can still see one way out of disaster:

Chapter one is a kind of epilogue to TGS. It's not a meeting with Egwene, it's Rand getting back to reality, and reflecting what he now has to do and how his new worldview will, concretely, be reflected in the way he will fight the Shadow etc. It ends with his decision to start his "tour" with a long overdue chat with someone... (we may not even be told who yet! The other option is to end the chapter with a short Egwene POV in her study, as a novice tells her the Dragon Reborn wishes an audience with her).

Brandon could use this chapter as a kind of introduction (a book end, or teaser sort of introduction), to make clear to all the casual readers these events appear quite ahead of when Perrin (especially) and Mat (less so) are now in the timeline. Rand could think of them, and the colours will give us a not too spoilerish glimpse of what Perrin and Mat are respectively up to, that later in the book (when we see these moments happening) will serve to synchronize us with Rand/Egwene. Okay, so now Perrin has reached the day when Rand comes down from DM. Also, until this point is reached, we will know the Seanchan attack hasn't yet happened, the Tower isn't yet reunited, Rand is not yet in Tear, and so on. Perrin doesn't need this as much, because Tam's departure with Nynaeve (or Cadsuane, I forget if we know which of the two actually fetched him) could serve this purpose.

Brandon could then wait for Perrin and Mat to catch up, before starting the Egwene and Rand bridge chapters. This would be the second book end, marking when the story lines have become synch.

While I tend to agree Egwene and Rand (I thought it would be Logain, but Rand would work too) might together brung about the reunion of Light at the end, my hunch is that it's too early in chapter 1 to set this in motion.

This should really be left for mid-book, when all the characters are more or less in synch. Otherwise, it means Egwene and Rand will set in motion events that happen way too far ahead (that would also mean they'd "stall" to wait for Perrin and Mat after only a few chapters), and might even spoil a bit the endings of Mat's and Perrin's story lines (if in chapter one Rand says "I know where Perrin is, and I will fetch him... we'll spend the whole book waiting for this to happen.)

the first there was "Questions of Leadership", which is a fairly fitting title for a discussion between Rand and Egwene.


It fits, but among many other possibilities, though. It would also fit perfectly for a chapter in which Rand reflects about his own (terrible) leadership, and decides to take matters in hands and become a whole other kind of leader he's been.

It could be about Perrin and the wolves. It could be about Perrin as leader of his group. It could be about Galad regaining his leadership, or his men deciding to rescue him because they won't accept Asunawa's leadership anymore. It could Loial, it could be Lan. It could be about so many things. It could also be indeed the meeting of Egwene and Rand by mid book, establishing his leadership. If chapter one is only Rand coming down and reflecting - or reaching Egwene's study (first chapters are always fairly slow) then we would guess or know the meeting of Rand and Egwene is about to happen, and we would eagerly await that, yet we might have little idea what will come out of it - and we might not see the meeting until we're much, much further along in the timeline, and Perrin/Mat have caught up. It's quite possible then something unpredictable, or exciting, comes out of the meeting of Rand and Egwene. In chapter 1.... that sounds most, most unlikely something momentous could take place between Rand and Egwene.

Here's a prediction: since the end point of ToM is definitely going to be ahead of that of tGS (since there has to be a reunion), I think the role Rand and Egwene will play is in making this reunion happen. It may well be that even with their differences, these two decide that they need to get their respective factions in order for a big meeting before they decide how to push against Shayol Ghul. Rand will deal with his in-house issues, followed by the Black Tower and maybe Arad Doman/Saldea. Egwene will whip up the Tower, work with Elayne on Andor and Cairhein. Once all this is set, they may plan for a big push to resolve the Seanchan issue (since they both will now think this is the thing that has to be tackled before TG). Decision made, they'll part to do their thing, and I think there on, we'll kind of loose focus on them and shift to Mat and Perrin. I think both their stories will move more quickly towards the end point of tGS (when the clouds break over DM, and the attack on the Tower is one day old).


This seems to go too far in the story, and leave too little for AMOL. I expect most of the Seanchan conflict to be dealt with in AMOL only. It's either that, or the Black Tower. I find more likely that the BT will be the hot topic in TOM, and the Seanchan will make their big return in AMOL, once Mat is done with his "Andoran" story line.

I think Rand might have to convince Egwene there's nothing to be done against the Seanchan for now, that they must stay focussed on the Shadow. The hot topic between them might, most likely, be the escape of the Black Ajah. Rand has long suspected Taim is a traitor - he was just pissed off big time that Logain put it under his nose. There's the matter of the disappearance of Egwene's envoys to tell Rand about, and there's the disappearance of the Reds yet to surface. My feeling is still that Logain has not given up on Taim, and its his spies who will discover that the BA escapees are at the BT. It may well be that Rand will grant Logain the authority to join his forces to Egwene to strike at the BT, while himself continues to set things in order for the LB on his side. It could even be that Logain's story line will build up to a decision from him to seek an alliance with Egwene, and will show up at TV while Rand is there.. and surprisingly, Rand isn't nearly as furious with him showing up as Logain would have thought, and admits Logain was right about Taim, and puts him in charge. Logain reports his agent among the young soldiers have reported the recent arrivals of hundreds of sisters are at the BT. There.. Egwene has found her BA. Will she tell Rand about Mesaana? We'll see.

My hunch is still that Rand's reason to be in Caemlyn at the end of the book will be to reunite Aviendha, Min and Elayne and marry them. It doesn't exclude the possibility he also comes to be there, protecting the palace and Elayne, on the day Egwene and Logain are set to attack the Black Tower.

For anything like this to be true, the meeting between Rand and Egwene can't possibly take place in chapter one as it would be way, way too revealing. Chapter one would have to be about deciding he will go meet Egwene, then vanishing from the book while Mat and Perrin catch up. Egwene, I think is more likely to reappear a bit sooner, as it sounds likely she has a few things to deal with before meeting Rand. She might have her intro chapter, perhaps two, before an overly excited novice tells her "Mother, the Dragon Reborn is here and wishes an audience with the Amyrlin Seat".

I can almost see Rand's smirk, puts the sort of show Lan taught him to deal with Siuan, and calls Egwene "Mother", and Egwene struggling to control herself because she's sure he's mocking her. I hope this chapter is seen from Egwene's POV - it will altogether be funnier.
This message last edited by DomA on 25/09/2010 at 10:01:00 PM
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Jason's review... Looks like DomA was right (Review is now removed) - 25/09/2010 05:40:18 AM 3412 Views
Re: Jason's review (spoilerish thoughts from me, so BEWARE!). Looks like DomA was right - 25/09/2010 06:00:46 AM 1236 Views
Pretty sure it's not Egwene... - 25/09/2010 07:07:00 AM 1169 Views
Oh well - I was wrong - 27/09/2010 03:56:59 PM 884 Views
Ituralde - 25/09/2010 06:29:26 AM 999 Views
Read the ToM rules - 25/09/2010 07:44:22 AM 921 Views
I officially hate reviews of WoT (in general) - 25/09/2010 08:10:43 AM 1004 Views
I take Jason's reviews with a pinch of salt - 25/09/2010 09:45:10 AM 1068 Views
Re: I take Jason's reviews with a pinch of salt - 25/09/2010 03:50:40 PM 911 Views
Perrin will probably gather the wolves... - 25/09/2010 09:57:06 AM 1059 Views
I suppose Olver could be the one who takes off Mat's eye *NM* - 25/09/2010 10:01:17 AM 486 Views
The review is now gone. *NM* - 25/09/2010 04:10:59 PM 492 Views
Unfortunately, there's not much left for Elayne to do. - 25/09/2010 07:14:09 PM 1102 Views
I haven't read the review but... - 25/09/2010 07:22:48 PM 1493 Views
That's not what I meant... - 25/09/2010 08:25:42 PM 1089 Views
It's odd, I didn't see any reference to Rand descending from DM in his review. - 25/09/2010 08:39:33 PM 923 Views
It was the very last line... - 25/09/2010 08:55:49 PM 1031 Views
Re: It was the very last line... - 25/09/2010 09:03:14 PM 915 Views
Re: It was the very last line... - 25/09/2010 09:54:28 PM 895 Views
Re: It was the very last line... - 25/09/2010 10:09:58 PM 1160 Views
Mike quit being obsessed about 6 years ago (maybe longer?) - 25/09/2010 10:46:23 PM 991 Views
Re: Mike quit being obsessed about 6 years ago (maybe longer?) - 26/09/2010 01:11:52 AM 994 Views
I blame JordanCon too. - 26/09/2010 02:17:50 AM 1052 Views
Regarding the WOTFAQ, Tam, - 26/09/2010 10:04:40 PM 969 Views
Re: Regarding the WOTFAQ, Tam, - 27/09/2010 07:20:11 AM 948 Views
Re: Regarding the WOTFAQ, Tam, - 27/09/2010 11:03:35 AM 966 Views
Re: I blame JordanCon too. - 27/09/2010 01:07:59 AM 1036 Views
Re: I blame JordanCon too. - 27/09/2010 07:35:04 AM 990 Views
Re: That's not what I meant... - 25/09/2010 09:49:17 PM 1196 Views
Some thoughts on a potential meeting... - 26/09/2010 05:11:06 AM 1109 Views
Regarding Brandon's messing up of the timelines... - 25/09/2010 11:34:06 PM 1058 Views
To me it's two different things - 26/09/2010 01:48:13 AM 1147 Views
I agree - 26/09/2010 03:09:04 AM 947 Views
My thought was not that they "dumbed it down" - 26/09/2010 03:50:36 AM 1022 Views
Re: My thought was not that they "dumbed it down" - 26/09/2010 11:42:12 PM 1213 Views
KOD and TOM show where TGS could have been 'fixed' - 26/09/2010 10:27:04 AM 950 Views
Re: KOD and TOM show where TGS could have been 'fixed' - 26/09/2010 09:35:41 PM 1076 Views
Whose really to blame though? - 27/09/2010 03:43:30 AM 928 Views
A suggestion? - 26/09/2010 11:39:08 AM 1074 Views
Is there a copy of the review somewhere? *NM* - 27/09/2010 01:40:22 AM 575 Views
The review is back up... - 27/09/2010 01:59:50 AM 931 Views
It wasn't quite identical... It was missing the line about Rand walking down from DM - 27/09/2010 06:42:47 AM 929 Views
The line about Rand wasn't there when I read the review Saturday morning either. *NM* - 27/09/2010 01:57:00 PM 422 Views
It was... - 27/09/2010 04:22:24 PM 782 Views
I must have missed it then. It does fit with Tor's not releasing Chapter 1 early. *NM* - 27/09/2010 05:06:36 PM 430 Views
What do you mean? - 27/09/2010 11:33:15 PM 839 Views
It was at the very bottom of the post and hard to find - 28/09/2010 12:44:56 AM 730 Views
Olver - 27/09/2010 11:34:40 AM 1078 Views
He's Demandred, natch. - 27/09/2010 03:54:09 PM 825 Views
Re: Olver - 27/09/2010 05:42:25 PM 884 Views
Re: Olver darkfriend? - 28/09/2010 12:02:11 AM 939 Views
'Tis a shame. I love spoilers. - 27/09/2010 03:16:02 PM 946 Views
One problem with the idea of a Rand-Egwene meeting in Chapter 1 beyond timeline issues - 27/09/2010 10:29:15 PM 862 Views
Not true... - 28/09/2010 01:00:40 AM 850 Views
Good call. I assumed, and still do, that the two events are one in the same. - 28/09/2010 01:10:13 AM 926 Views
I don't think so... - 28/09/2010 01:47:40 AM 782 Views
Re: I don't think so... - 28/09/2010 02:00:59 AM 836 Views
Re: I don't think so... - 28/09/2010 03:07:08 AM 1667 Views
Not true indeed... and.... - 28/09/2010 02:24:00 AM 1086 Views
Mesaana and the Foretelling... - 28/09/2010 03:31:24 AM 816 Views
Re: Mesaana and the Foretelling... - 13/10/2010 01:32:12 AM 1149 Views

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