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TOTALLY AGREE malekithe Send a noteboard - 04/11/2010 05:25:18 AM
This was the book in which Rand became or lost estranged pretty much everyone he had personal ties with or who could counsel him or whom he could trust: Mat who evaded him, Egwene, Moiraine, Lan etc.m- and the person he confided the most to was his Forsaken teacher, whom he lost at the end as well. From there, he was virtually on his own among strangers, and several new dubious characters where about to enter the stage, and we would see them and make our opinion of them mostly through Rand's POV only - people like Bashere, Taim etc., agreing or disagreeing with Rand about the trust or mistrust he felt for each of those. Rand's POVs were conveying to us his increasing paranoia, which in part we were meant to share, which could only work if we were missing information about stuff that looked relevant but wasn't necessarily important, hiding among the red herrings a few of the important things to notice.

I don't have a problem with much of this. I understand that Rand was losing his mentors and thus, Asmo needed to be written out. Heck, I can even understand keeping Rand in the dark about what really happened, despite the fact that he didn't seem to care much about Asmo's whereabouts anyway. My problem, then, is the lazy way RJ went about writing the character out.

Let's say I'm writing a story, and have a secondary character named Jake. Jake isn't terribly prominent in the overall story, but does have a important role to play for part of it. Once his role is over though, and he's become redundant, I need to write him out of the story. I do this in the following way:

"And then Jake was murdered."

I then continue on with the story, never giving out any further information on Jake's murder, and none of the other characters seem to give a rat's ass what happened to him.

I think it would be fair to say that most of my readers are going to say "wtf just happened there??" especially if I've shown myself to be a fairly competent writer otherwise. They are either going to think "Jeez Amanda, that was the best you could do? I've read Mary-Sue fics on Fanfiction.net that wrote out characters more elegantly than that!" or "Amanda is a good writer. If she wrote something like that, there must be a reason for it. Maybe Jake's murder is supposed to be a big mystery that will be solved later in the story." Or even just "Hey, I liked Jake. Can't you at least tell us who killed the guy and why instead of tossing him aside like a used kleenex?"

These are valid reactions to lazy writing, and that's what this is. Lazy and half-assed writing in an otherwise good story.

RJ handed us extra info Rand didn't have: Asmodean had not fled, he was murdered. Not revealing why and how he was killed created the feeling there was a hidden plot ongoing Rand was not seeing, obsessed with his notion that Asmodean had fled. This also contrasted Rand's decision to trust Taim, whom nearly no reader trusted from his first scene (nor were we ever supposed to trust Taim, Jordan wove around him the same themes of jealousy and scorn of Rand he had introduced for Demandred, then we the Taimandred phenomenon started he sort of backed off some, probably guessing he had overdone it if people associated Demandred and Taim so fast, to the point of believing they were one and the same).

Rand was obsessed with the notion that Asmo had fled? He thinks about it only a few times in all the remaining books. Yes, he thinks Asmo ran off, and yes, we the readers know that Asmo didn't, but that situation would not change if we the readers knew that, not only was he murdered, he was murdered when he bumped into Graendal sneaking around the palace and she wasted him. A quick scene of him surprising Graendal and being killed, or Graendal remembering/telling someone about the events in the following book, would have served the exact same purpose of getting rid of Asmo without Rand knowing what happened to him, while also giving him a proper sendoff to the readers, who had become invested in the character like they would any other semi-important character.

Of course, it's the most obvious suspect who turned out to have killed Asmodean. Of course the murder actually was "irrelevant". It had played it's role, of getting rid of Asmodean, and augmenting the paranoia about plots around Rand. It had no bearing whatsoever of the rest of the story and what happened really wasn't all that interesting, which was probably why RJ originally intended never to return to this and spelled out who it was.

And again, if that's the case, that's lazy writing. Asmo was an important enough character that such a sendoff is unsatisfying to the readers. "And then Jake was murdered" just isn't good enough, especially for a writer like RJ. We expect better.

The rest, it is the readers and the internet, that turned a minor story point into this large mystery. That's only after that happened that RJ started having fun with this... not his fault if readers insisted so much on questioning him about this so-called mystery, mind you. He was actually a good sport to have included enough clues to solve the mystery by eliminating the Chosen who didn't kill Asmodean. All those crazy theories about Lanfear, Slayer, Aviendha, Mat, Moiraine... RJ's not to blame for making a huge deal like this out of it. When the writer keeps insisting that he doesn't intend to reveal something, the obvious conclusion, one many argued about for years, is that the solution must be irrevelant to the greater story, and not interesting enough to include in the books... But readers kept insisting, and RJ gave in - and so there it is, in all it's irrelevance, obviousness and boring glory. If RJ were still here, he could say "well, now you see why I thought it more interesting never to solve this".

The readers turned it into a big deal because they gave RJ too much credit and assumed an instance of lazy writing must be a bigger deal than it was. They turned an extremely inelegant way of getting rid of a supporting character into a murder mystery that ultimately had no payoff, because they thought RJ was too good of a writer to do the former. I don't blame them, but I do blame RJ, both for writing Asmo's death that way, and for fanning the flames by being so secretive about it once he found out his readers actually did care about what happened, when he could have easily just written the answer into one of the (immediately) following books or just told us. What he did smacks of stubbornness and an unwillingness to admit that maybe he didn't handle a particular plot point very well.

You say I'm not being fair to RJ, but I think I'm being plenty fair. RJ was a good writer. He showed us that time and time again in his books. Therefore I expect good writing from him. If he doesn't deliver, I'm not going to bend over backward and pretend that he has. It doesn't mean that I think he's a bad writer overall, just that he screwed up in this case, and I'm very disappointed, because this was a polt point that I cared about. I liked Asmo. The character deserved better than to end up like Jake. A quick scene that basically said "lol, Asmo just bumped into Graendal and got his ass handed to him. Poor guy can't catch a break, can he? :P " would have sufficed. It would have also served the purposes you mentioned (getting rid of Asmo while having Rand not know what happened to him) while also giving him a proper sendoff in the readers' eyes.

Instead, we got "And then Jake was murdered."

Followed by 7 books of pretending that was a perfectly adequate way of wrapping up Jake's story.

Followed by "oh fine! If you REALLY want to know who killed Jake, it was...uh...Jim. Yes, that's it. Jim killed him. For his wallet. Moving on...."

And that sucks.



Since it wasn't part of the plot, and it wasnt a mystery there was NO reason to continue to hide the answer. If anything it was used as a way to make people keep buying his books to find out this mystery that was never being resolved. The fact that it couldnt be explained for 7 books is ridiculous. You can see that in just a few lines in this book was all it took to point the finger straight at Graendal. Why couldn't that have been done 6 books ago if it was 'no big deal'?

What's worse is it's such a letdown. If anything after seeing the tremendous amount of speculation for like DECADES he could have changed his original murderer and made it into something EXCITING which would have given us all a payoff whoever it was that killed him. Instead we had to read the stone cold answer in a glossary. W

Instead of publishing the last book why not just put a glossary answer of what happens at the Last Battle?
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The gratuitous gloating Asmodean feed - 03/11/2010 05:16:23 PM 1894 Views
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slayer still pulled the trigger. - 03/11/2010 06:29:59 PM 888 Views
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I used to entertain unusual suspects when I was bored - 03/11/2010 06:11:45 PM 851 Views
Etzel: I told you so *NM* - 03/11/2010 06:20:11 PM 683 Views
Bleh - 03/11/2010 07:00:43 PM 910 Views
What she said! +1 *NM* - 03/11/2010 07:16:02 PM 476 Views
Yes and no but yes =) - 03/11/2010 09:18:14 PM 891 Views
You're unfair to RJ. It had a purpose. - 04/11/2010 02:44:44 AM 956 Views
I agree that it was we readers who made it a big deal - 04/11/2010 03:11:11 AM 944 Views
I am being fair, but not generous - 04/11/2010 04:28:34 AM 982 Views
TOTALLY AGREE - 04/11/2010 05:25:18 AM 927 Views
I agree completely. - 04/11/2010 07:54:13 AM 878 Views
Re: I agree completely. - 04/11/2010 07:57:29 AM 899 Views
I agree too - 05/11/2010 10:13:52 AM 896 Views
Re: I agree too - 06/11/2010 06:53:36 AM 970 Views
Yeah it sucks! - 04/11/2010 05:12:55 AM 886 Views
+1 - Totally pointless..... *NM* - 07/11/2010 04:16:46 PM 390 Views
BWAHAHAHAHAHA .... I TOLD YOU SO ETZEL!!! SLAYER MY ASS!!! - 03/11/2010 10:04:13 PM 986 Views
- 04/11/2010 02:11:13 AM 972 Views
How boring and pointless this all ended up being. *NM* - 04/11/2010 02:57:32 AM 444 Views
Not at all. It was fun arguing about it for years. *shrugs* *NM* - 06/11/2010 04:40:36 AM 398 Views
I was also right. *NM* - 04/11/2010 03:22:40 AM 491 Views
Here it comes... - 04/11/2010 05:44:38 AM 1069 Views
Too much enthusiasm. *NM* - 04/11/2010 05:45:01 AM 596 Views
Yeah yeah - 04/11/2010 07:20:58 PM 933 Views
Bad job by RJ - Graendal? - 07/11/2010 04:15:15 PM 1005 Views
Not to be negative or such, but - 08/11/2010 03:43:39 PM 1053 Views

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