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Re: Can anyone explain to me why she needs armies for this, anyway? DomA Send a noteboard - 12/11/2010 01:48:58 AM
I suppose it is good that Egwene is gathering all the world armies to oppose Rand, but her objection to Rand is really quite stupid.

Gathering armies for Tarmon Gai'don, fine. Gathering world leaders to try and convince Rand, also fine. But gathering armies to convince Rand? What the hell is the point of that? Or is this just a "we're going to discuss it once and for all and move on to Tarmon Gai'don from there" deal?


Egwene made that clear. If Rand can't be convinced by people he trusts, then he might be influenced by a sea of humanity pleading to him not to break the Seals. That's why Egwene is telling rulers to bring as many people as they can. It happens to be armies, because no one is going to bring peasants and citizens....and their armies are for the most part already mobilized...

This is nothing Rand has not foreseen, he was actually hoping this would happen. He smiled mysteriously when Egwene told him "we must plan", and he answered "I came here so you could plan".

Rand knows what he's doing. He needed "the world" to gather in a single location, it's one of the keys to winning TG. He thinks he already has the women he will need to assist him. He wanted Egwene to get the White Tower ready for Tarmon Gai'don, not to suprise it on the eve of TG, as he would have if his real goal was to avoid letting anyone a chance to oppose his plan (and I get the feeling it could be the very mistake LTT made with Latra Posae, exposing his plan too late, at the last minute before he wished to implement it).

She now knows she has a month to put it on the war footing. He also expected Egwene to send to everyone she could find to come try to convince Rand not to break the seals... Rand wants the world to get involved. He' said as much. He will guide, but this isn't his battle to fight.

LTT is Aes Sedai to the bone, and he can argue with the best of them. He wanted the world's armies gathered for him, and he didn't have the time and resources available to do it himself. If he had told Egwene : "I need you help to gather the world's armies north of TV in a month to the day, as I will launch TG that day", he risked that Egwene would have balked and tried to make the gathering fail, to delay Rand long enough to convince him the world isn't ready and he can't break the seals. He's outwitted her. He obviously doesn't caremuch she mounts this worldwide alliance to try to sway him, he expects her to do just that, and all he wants is that the world gets gathered - to fulfill at last the Aelfinn's answer about the world being "as one" (he needs the alliance of west and south, the Seanchan's, to come too... He might see to that shortly, I think - also make an opening to Tuon, and warn her the LB is about to start).

He intends to present his case in front of all the armies that will fight TG, and doing so he will have cornered the WT if they decide to oppose his plan. Expect Rand to bring up his version of the events surrounding the Fateful Concord in front of everyone, to make clear what the opposition of the WT might lead to. That will make many people at the gathering rethink their position.... If the WT chooses to oppose him, they will have to do so openly, in front of the whole world, and defend its decision, and bear its responsabilities. As he joked to Egwene, he wished he had gotten more involved with the Tower, he could have had a scapegoat to blame his mistakes on... She should have listened more closely... behind the joke was a truth... the Tower, if they decide to oppose his plan, will have to explain itself, or risk losing all its credibility and a lot of its power. They, not Rand, will be pushed aside (what Rand probably doesn't realize - at least he never has been told about it.... is that Egwene has developped closer ties to all the other groups of female channellers. If Rand thinks he can fall back on the WO or Windfinders if the WT refuses him, he might have the bad surprise Egwene had gotten to them first... he doesn't know the WO have kept in touch with Egwene, or that the Windfinders have gotten involved with the Tower).

In the WOS, LTT backed down in front of the Concord, and it made the Light dither and dither, until the Concord's plans fell apart and it wss almost too late to save the world. Rand doesn't intend to make the same mistake. He sets the schedule, and if the WT refuses him, he will move forward without them, in his own time. He won't agree to dither and delay until another plan can be implemented etc.

The second part of Rand's intent with this, IMO, is that being much wiser now he understands he might be wrong, as he thinks Latra Posae may have been right to oppose him.... He is also genuinely leaving the WT a month to come up with a sensible plan, and solid arguments why he must change his mind. If they have nothing that can convince him, he will act.

There may be more to it than that. I think there are events surrounding the Fateful Concord we don't yet know nor understand. It's just sort of obvious that LTT has played Egwene, and what he did is part of a scheme to avoid another Fateful Concord... despite their appearances that he's just gone and gave Egwene the rope to hang him, leaving one of the most influential and powerful women in the world a full month to convince his allies to join her to oppose his plans. (It's an important distinction to make, incidentally. Egwene doesn't intend to oppose Rand or turn the world away from the Dragon, she opposes a central aspect of his plans, and hopes humanity will convince him to delay. That's not quite the same thing.) Egwene has ground to oppose Rand's decision. It is ingrained deep in the Tower that the Aes Sedai's main mission is to protect the world from the Shadow. Egwene is merely stepping up to this responsability at last - because she's brought the Tower back into shape and it can now functions as it should. And she takes this very seriously, unlike other AS. Few would have the blind faith to make the leap Rand made, none has shared his epiphany. He admitted to Egwene he had no idea yet how he would seal the Bore, he admitted to her there was a risk Shai'tan would break free if he removes the sealing. Rand argues they cannot wait, and my hunch is that he is right. But this is fiction, and nothing will happen to any of us if he is wrong. The same can't be said for the world, or Egwene. It's perfectly legitimate that she freaks out. It doesn't sound perfectly sane that the solution to win against Shai'tan is to make him and his forces much more powerful, and risk freeing him, while the Light doesn't yet have the plan to strike and seal the Bore, and no idea when it will have a plan. As insane as it sounds, Rand's most likely right. The Shadow is about to strike, and it's already very late in the game to start TG. If Rand waits too long, there may not be enough of the Light's forces left to sustain the sudden increase of power the Shadow gets when the seals are broke. Another thing LTT knows all too well is how formidably powerful Shai'tan will be once the seals are gone, and he knows how weak the world facing him is. As it is, there's probably barely enough in the Light to face this. They need all the advantages they can get, including forcing the Shadow into the war before it's fully ready.

Demandred would agree with that... Moridin didn't seem to care much about the seals, but it freaks out Demanded, and probably risk upsetting his preparations, that Rand has the initiative to launch TG when he wants. Demandred wanted the seals, so the Shadow could decide of the moment to break them. He might have been sorely disappointed by Shai'tan's decision to have them broken before Demandred is ready for the war, however....




This message last edited by DomA on 12/11/2010 at 02:09:50 AM
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Egwene's stupid objection to Rand - 10/11/2010 03:19:44 PM 2433 Views
Re: Egwene's stupid objection to Rand - 10/11/2010 03:25:26 PM 1204 Views
Re: Egwene's stupid objection to Rand - 10/11/2010 03:29:43 PM 1084 Views
Re: Egwene's stupid objection to Rand - 10/11/2010 08:15:57 PM 1143 Views
Especially that she is gathering armies to convince/force Rand... - 10/11/2010 03:33:09 PM 1444 Views
You still believe in Terez's doomed theory? - 10/11/2010 03:48:08 PM 1139 Views
No, I never did. *NM* - 10/11/2010 03:52:14 PM 578 Views
Oh ok, a lot of people seemed passionate about defending it - 10/11/2010 04:09:51 PM 964 Views
...armies already oathsworn to him - 11/11/2010 03:27:11 AM 939 Views
Can anyone explain to me why she needs armies for this, anyway? - 10/11/2010 06:27:25 PM 1249 Views
Re: Egwene is being played - 10/11/2010 06:42:35 PM 1199 Views
Hah! I agree! - 10/11/2010 07:20:39 PM 1056 Views
So what - 10/11/2010 08:45:53 PM 1018 Views
Rand is the Dragon Reborn. That doesn't mean he's the savior of the world. - 10/11/2010 08:57:37 PM 983 Views
No, he's the ONLY one who CAN save it. - 14/11/2010 12:20:39 AM 1015 Views
Totally - 11/11/2010 12:49:11 PM 871 Views
Re: Can anyone explain to me why she needs armies for this, anyway? - 12/11/2010 01:48:58 AM 1113 Views
I would find that unsatisfying and not quite logical - 12/11/2010 05:57:09 PM 1132 Views
Re: I would find that unsatisfying and not quite logical - 12/11/2010 08:01:58 PM 882 Views
That doesn’t actually invalidates my point - 13/11/2010 10:20:13 PM 892 Views
You just don't seem to understand... - 14/11/2010 12:32:06 AM 915 Views
Her objection is based out of a fear borne of good reasoning - 10/11/2010 06:47:30 PM 1054 Views
Of course you'd say that. You just won't get past your prejudice in favor of her, can you? - 13/11/2010 03:01:08 AM 947 Views
because Egwene has an incredibly important purpose - 13/11/2010 07:49:58 AM 984 Views
Re: because Egwene has an incredibly important purpose - 13/11/2010 12:01:20 PM 970 Views
Re: - 13/11/2010 02:50:22 PM 879 Views
Re: Re: - 13/11/2010 04:16:43 PM 939 Views
Re: Re: - 13/11/2010 07:14:01 PM 842 Views
Re: Re: - 13/11/2010 07:25:35 PM 838 Views
"Wait, Rand! You have 2,394 more privates to hear from, and then the corporals...." Yeah. Great plan - 14/11/2010 12:17:44 AM 934 Views
Re: - 14/11/2010 08:21:46 PM 825 Views
Maybe you should ask Lews Therin... - 14/11/2010 05:46:24 AM 960 Views
It seems that way to us.... - 12/11/2010 07:14:42 PM 937 Views
Lews Therin Telamon Reborn. - 14/11/2010 12:56:25 AM 835 Views
About that.... - 14/11/2010 09:25:02 PM 836 Views

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