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Proof that Asmodean's effective One Power strength is greater than Moghedien's... Shannow Send a noteboard - 03/02/2011 03:22:42 PM
Sidious's recent thread has unlocked a direct comparison between the One Power strengths of some of the Forsaken, and once again Nynaeve is the key to a definitive answer in this respect.

Without going into a lengthy post, we can use Nynaeve as a measuring stick to demonstrate how Moghedien, Asmodean and Semirhage compare to one another in EFFECTIVE strength.

Basically, it goes like this:

Nynaeve is still significantly below her full potential in tSR, when she EXACTLY matches Moghedien in strength.

At the end of the same book, Rand EXACTLY matches Asmodean in strength. Neither Rand or Nynaeve are at their full strength yet at this point.

Egwene acknowledges in the SAME book that Nynaeve is weaker than Rand at that point in time - although we didn't need Egwene's statement to grasp that fact, given the status of Rand vs Nynaeve in the channeling pecking order from a thematic perspective.

Therefore, we can definitively state that, as at the time of tSR:

Nynaeve = Moghedien
Rand = Asmodean
Rand > Nynaeve

Therefore Asmodean > Moghedien.

Conclusion: Asmodean is without a doubt stronger in the Power than Moghedien. And we are referring to effective strength here, because when Nynaeve and Rand were compared, Egwene could not sense the QUANTITY of saidin he was channeling, but could merely judge the EFFECT that he was able to achieve (simultaneously shielding both her and Elayne while channeling a dozen flows at the same time).

Thefefore if Rand's EFFECTIVE strength exceeded Nynaeve's at that point, then Asmodean's effective strength exceeds Moghedien's.

Furthermore, since it has been confirmed that Nynaeve and Semirhage are VERY close to one another in strength, we can also state without fear of contradiction that the difference in strength between Modhedien and Semirhage is exactly the same as difference between Nynaeve's strength in Book 4 and Nynaeve's full potential strength.

Since Nynaeve is still growing in strength 3 or 4 books later, it seems pretty clear that the gap between Moghedien and Semirhage is considerable.

In fact, as late as POD, Elayne states that neither she nor Nynaeve had yet reached their full potential strength. That is a long time after Nynaeve matched Moghedien in strength.

This message last edited by Shannow on 03/02/2011 at 03:58:12 PM
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Proof that Asmodean's effective One Power strength is greater than Moghedien's... - 03/02/2011 03:22:42 PM 2593 Views
Huh? - 03/02/2011 04:08:29 PM 1592 Views
Why do you deliberately misquote the text? - 03/02/2011 04:12:50 PM 1714 Views
You're deliberately being obtuse... as usual... - 03/02/2011 10:07:09 PM 1581 Views
Right. So Egwene can shield someone of Egwene's own strength, plus Elayne, AND weave a dozen flows.. - 03/02/2011 10:26:27 PM 1596 Views
- 03/02/2011 10:46:40 PM 1409 Views
No. Egwene is very close to her full potential at the time... - 03/02/2011 11:44:20 PM 1643 Views
Bullshit... - 04/02/2011 12:39:42 AM 1371 Views
Unbiased view... - 04/02/2011 01:46:40 AM 1511 Views
The WoT Board in a nutshell. *NM* - 04/02/2011 02:34:32 AM 767 Views
Yeah, thats unbiased... *NM* - 04/02/2011 05:23:17 PM 681 Views
Don't agree - 04/02/2011 08:30:02 AM 1454 Views
Fair comment, but my question then is: - 04/02/2011 11:26:25 AM 1390 Views
I think the WO and Moiraine also Force Egwene as they know what's coming and need her - 04/02/2011 03:55:46 PM 1500 Views
It is specifically stated that Egwene was forced by the rigours of the damane training... - 04/02/2011 05:15:20 PM 1524 Views
Egwene has been continually forced... - 04/02/2011 06:02:08 PM 1421 Views
The direct quotes contradict you... - 04/02/2011 06:23:03 PM 1519 Views
actually the quote substantiates that Egwene is only slightly stronger than Moiraine in TSR - 04/02/2011 07:51:10 PM 1548 Views
here ya go they were all Forced - 04/02/2011 07:59:40 PM 1331 Views
Nope... - 04/02/2011 08:23:00 PM 1379 Views
I think you may have misused the term - RJ meant 'effective' to mean something a bit different. - 03/02/2011 04:40:41 PM 1642 Views
Re: I think you are mistaking what RJ meant effective to mean. - 03/02/2011 05:30:15 PM 1458 Views
Re: I think you are mistaking what RJ meant effective to mean. - 03/02/2011 05:45:30 PM 1474 Views
Re: I think you are mistaking what RJ meant effective to mean. - 03/02/2011 06:31:34 PM 1408 Views
Re: I think you are mistaking what RJ meant effective to mean. - 03/02/2011 07:06:50 PM 1441 Views
Re: I think you are mistaking what RJ meant effective to mean. - 03/02/2011 07:17:25 PM 1366 Views
We still don't know who is effectively stronger, and not sure if Asmo was equal to Rand by the end. - 03/02/2011 06:58:14 PM 1274 Views
See my post above, I would say Asmo is Weaker than Moggy... *NM* - 03/02/2011 07:10:07 PM 741 Views
I'm not certain either way. I think it all depends on the terms being used. - 03/02/2011 07:22:01 PM 1418 Views
Effective strength means who can make the bigger fireball, the stronger shield, the thicker balefire - 03/02/2011 07:42:17 PM 1364 Views
I still hold to the point that your analogy is false. - 04/02/2011 04:20:05 PM 1342 Views
My impression of your view, in general, is that... - 03/02/2011 07:33:37 PM 1418 Views
How... - 03/02/2011 10:15:34 PM 1289 Views
If Nynaeve could do to Egwene and Elayne what Rand did to them, then I rest my case... - 03/02/2011 10:36:46 PM 1520 Views
Re: If Nynaeve could do to Egwene and Elayne what Rand did to them, then I rest my case... - 03/02/2011 10:50:57 PM 1467 Views
Got you now... - 03/02/2011 11:32:49 PM 1351 Views
You're clearly delusional... - 04/02/2011 12:59:26 AM 1413 Views
You sound ridiculous - 04/02/2011 02:05:18 AM 1457 Views
Re: You sound ridiculous - 04/02/2011 02:23:50 AM 1498 Views
Ok... - 04/02/2011 04:13:34 PM 1280 Views
Elayne is not stronger than most AS at this point in the books - 04/02/2011 08:14:41 PM 1413 Views
Re: How... - 04/02/2011 08:34:21 AM 1476 Views
They're very close now... - 04/02/2011 05:46:48 PM 1499 Views
That is unfortunately not true... - 04/02/2011 06:02:34 PM 1434 Views
It is... - 04/02/2011 06:05:05 PM 1269 Views
Re: It is... - 04/02/2011 06:31:32 PM 1500 Views
Yup... - 04/02/2011 08:20:33 PM 1279 Views
Semirhage hated Lanfear, but dared not act against her strength... - 04/02/2011 08:29:24 PM 1763 Views
yet Graendal showed a lot of respect for Semirhage ... even assumed she was the most - 04/02/2011 08:53:05 PM 1448 Views
Graendal on Semirhage and Demandred... - 04/02/2011 09:23:50 PM 1661 Views
No - 04/02/2011 11:10:00 PM 1412 Views
CLAPS *NM* - 05/02/2011 05:15:21 AM 765 Views
We will just have to disagree on this one... - 05/02/2011 06:57:36 AM 1251 Views
Indeed - 05/02/2011 07:38:10 AM 1260 Views
I agree with you ... especially abou the perpective issue - 05/02/2011 03:00:58 PM 1499 Views
I agree with you here - 04/02/2011 08:19:35 PM 1333 Views
I don't think that's true.. - 04/02/2011 08:21:38 PM 1283 Views
Considering that Asmodean and Rand were using a sa'angreal... - 04/02/2011 04:55:03 AM 1578 Views
I think this is a no brainer - 04/02/2011 08:22:00 AM 1524 Views
The nice fact which is proven is the magnitude of the gap between Moghedien and Semirhage... - 04/02/2011 11:32:00 AM 1330 Views
Nynaeve could be at 90% or 80% when she faced Moghedien we have no way of measuring that - 04/02/2011 08:42:03 PM 1317 Views
Disagree... - 04/02/2011 08:51:55 PM 1420 Views
spin it all you like... I'm tired of this arument and your creative quoting. - 04/02/2011 08:56:14 PM 1315 Views
The creative quoter is Fionwe, not me. You quote correctly, but your interpretations are way off... - 04/02/2011 09:05:43 PM 1198 Views
Nynaeve has grown in strength, but she started nearly as strong as Moiraine! - 05/02/2011 05:35:05 AM 1384 Views
Starting out at Moiraine's strength meant starting out at barely 30% of her full potential... - 05/02/2011 07:05:46 AM 1398 Views
Nynaeve's strength - 05/02/2011 07:49:07 AM 1514 Views
Agree, Egwene has never been as strong as Nynaeve at any stage. *NM* - 05/02/2011 03:03:25 PM 805 Views
I disagree that Moiraine is 30% of Nynaeve. Much closer to 50% of Nynaeve. EDIT - 05/02/2011 03:02:06 PM 1464 Views
Minor quibbles aside... - 05/02/2011 04:05:30 PM 1524 Views
Agreed, the exact numbers are arbitrary, I place Egwene a tad higher than you ... EDIT - 05/02/2011 04:30:00 PM 1323 Views
Re: Agreed, the exact numbers are arbitrary, I place Egwene a tad higher than you ... EDIT - 05/02/2011 06:09:41 PM 1415 Views
shrugs - 05/02/2011 06:46:02 PM 1427 Views
Re: shrugs - 05/02/2011 08:03:37 PM 1364 Views
I don't recall the Merise quote you are refering too and they have not been together in the series - 05/02/2011 09:20:56 PM 1294 Views
I'm sorry, I meant the glossary entry... - 05/02/2011 10:29:46 PM 1263 Views
Thanks for clarifying - 05/02/2011 11:12:19 PM 1229 Views
Re: Thanks for clarifying - 06/02/2011 12:42:51 AM 1327 Views
fair enough ... I can agree to Cadsuane and Bode both being 70 with Egwene and co at 80 *NM* - 06/02/2011 04:29:49 AM 668 Views
Cool! *NM* - 06/02/2011 04:18:52 PM 673 Views
Sorry, but here your entire Bell Curve goes up in smoke... - 06/02/2011 01:13:15 PM 1218 Views
In fact, Moiraine is even STRONGER than I postulated in the above post... - 06/02/2011 01:22:11 PM 1669 Views
well... - 06/02/2011 02:11:02 PM 1404 Views
Only a separate Bell Curve for the Age of Legends - when the average strength was higher - will work - 06/02/2011 03:29:49 PM 1287 Views
Or, you know, the Aes Sedai aren't a representative sample... *NM* - 06/02/2011 04:19:22 PM 784 Views
I don't think Strength was higher in the AOL I think there were just more channelers - 06/02/2011 04:50:42 PM 1369 Views
Yup. - 06/02/2011 05:30:54 PM 1329 Views
Trivial - 06/02/2011 06:10:55 PM 1319 Views
Uhhh... no... - 06/02/2011 04:18:19 PM 1226 Views
Read these facts slowly, maybe you will grasp the implication then... - 06/02/2011 04:41:02 PM 1304 Views
you are missing the fact that women like Sharina have no interest in the Tower - 06/02/2011 05:05:10 PM 1364 Views
You equate random exclusions with the deliberate block exclusion of 37.5% weakest women... - 06/02/2011 05:41:47 PM 1335 Views
wrong - 06/02/2011 06:08:20 PM 1490 Views
That is weak logic in the extreme... - 06/02/2011 06:16:46 PM 1343 Views
what I'm saying is that a representative sample of the entire population - 06/02/2011 06:40:51 PM 1355 Views
Yes. *NM* - 06/02/2011 06:47:59 PM 742 Views
Yes. *NM* - 06/02/2011 06:48:00 PM 662 Views
But you don't prove that the undiscovered women are stronger. They may well be weaker... - 06/02/2011 07:26:27 PM 1152 Views
Amys is far from the strongest WO! - 06/02/2011 07:37:14 PM 1570 Views
Explain the 1000 women they found in Murandy then... - 06/02/2011 06:26:46 PM 1356 Views
And a 1000 years ago... - 06/02/2011 06:33:29 PM 1266 Views
The only implication I grasped is that you don't grasp math... - 06/02/2011 06:21:12 PM 1477 Views
Circular reasoning... - 06/02/2011 07:03:53 PM 1440 Views
Agreed. - 04/02/2011 04:32:05 PM 1379 Views
Agree. *NM* - 04/02/2011 05:49:05 PM 751 Views
agreed *NM* - 04/02/2011 08:27:22 PM 806 Views

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