We still don't know who is effectively stronger, and not sure if Asmo was equal to Rand by the end.
RugbyPlayingAshaman Send a noteboard - 03/02/2011 06:58:14 PM
RJ meant that a woman at 70% of the female maximum can match a man at 70% of the male maximum, even though the man has greater raw strength, thanks to her greater dexterity.
Yes.
But dexterity won't allow her to match a man at 75% or 80% of the male maximum. And that's what i'm saying. Asmodean is closer to the male maximum than Moghedien is to the female maximum.
The first part is somewhat incorrect. Dexterity alone can't enable a woman who is not equal in rough effectiveness to match a stronger man, but that is where skill, ability, Talents and personality come into play. For much of the early part of the series, while Rand was much stronger in the Power than any single Aes Sedai, he could be easily defeated by any one of them because his training was nonexistent and they were more experienced.
I guess this would prove that Asmodean can handle more of the Power than Moghedien, but we really can't say anything about eithers' effective strength. Moghedien, quite frankly, seemed more potent because she survived for quite a while to fight another day. As soon as Asmodean became involved in a plot, he was beaten and completely defeated.
Also, I'm not sure if it was ever said that Rand and Asmodean were equal in strength; I thought the statement was that each was drawing exactly one half of the total power available through the sa'angreal. Considering how tired both were, I'm not sure if this is an accurate indication that they were both equal to begin with or simply that both were exhausted to the point where each had exactly the same magnification effect despite being unequal in strength. Further, Nynaeve had her block and couldn't channel reliably while Rand was inexperienced and couldn't always touch the Source when he wanted to. I'm not sure either was effectively stronger at that point in the story. Technically, Nynaeve was effectively weaker than Elayne, Egwene and Aviendha for much of the series because her channeling ability was unreliable and she was so limited.
"Those who think they have no time for bodily exercise will sooner or later have to find time for illness."
Proof that Asmodean's effective One Power strength is greater than Moghedien's...
- 03/02/2011 03:22:42 PM
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Huh?
- 03/02/2011 04:08:29 PM
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Why do you deliberately misquote the text?
- 03/02/2011 04:12:50 PM
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You're deliberately being obtuse... as usual...
- 03/02/2011 10:07:09 PM
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Right. So Egwene can shield someone of Egwene's own strength, plus Elayne, AND weave a dozen flows..
- 03/02/2011 10:26:27 PM
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- 03/02/2011 10:46:40 PM
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- 03/02/2011 10:46:40 PM
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No. Egwene is very close to her full potential at the time...
- 03/02/2011 11:44:20 PM
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Bullshit...
- 04/02/2011 12:39:42 AM
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Don't agree
- 04/02/2011 08:30:02 AM
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Fair comment, but my question then is:
- 04/02/2011 11:26:25 AM
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I think the WO and Moiraine also Force Egwene as they know what's coming and need her
- 04/02/2011 03:55:46 PM
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It is specifically stated that Egwene was forced by the rigours of the damane training...
- 04/02/2011 05:15:20 PM
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Egwene has been continually forced...
- 04/02/2011 06:02:08 PM
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The direct quotes contradict you...
- 04/02/2011 06:23:03 PM
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actually the quote substantiates that Egwene is only slightly stronger than Moiraine in TSR
- 04/02/2011 07:51:10 PM
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I think you may have misused the term - RJ meant 'effective' to mean something a bit different.
- 03/02/2011 04:40:41 PM
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Re: I think you are mistaking what RJ meant effective to mean.
- 03/02/2011 05:30:15 PM
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Re: I think you are mistaking what RJ meant effective to mean.
- 03/02/2011 05:45:30 PM
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Re: I think you are mistaking what RJ meant effective to mean.
- 03/02/2011 06:31:34 PM
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We still don't know who is effectively stronger, and not sure if Asmo was equal to Rand by the end.
- 03/02/2011 06:58:14 PM
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See my post above, I would say Asmo is Weaker than Moggy... *NM*
- 03/02/2011 07:10:07 PM
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I'm not certain either way. I think it all depends on the terms being used.
- 03/02/2011 07:22:01 PM
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Effective strength means who can make the bigger fireball, the stronger shield, the thicker balefire
- 03/02/2011 07:42:17 PM
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My impression of your view, in general, is that...
- 03/02/2011 07:33:37 PM
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How...
- 03/02/2011 10:15:34 PM
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If Nynaeve could do to Egwene and Elayne what Rand did to them, then I rest my case...
- 03/02/2011 10:36:46 PM
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Re: If Nynaeve could do to Egwene and Elayne what Rand did to them, then I rest my case...
- 03/02/2011 10:50:57 PM
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Got you now...
- 03/02/2011 11:32:49 PM
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You're clearly delusional...
- 04/02/2011 12:59:26 AM
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You sound ridiculous
- 04/02/2011 02:05:18 AM
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Where on earth does it say Nynaeve could do to Egwene and Elayne what Rand did?
- 04/02/2011 08:06:48 PM
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Re: How...
- 04/02/2011 08:34:21 AM
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They're very close now...
- 04/02/2011 05:46:48 PM
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That is unfortunately not true...
- 04/02/2011 06:02:34 PM
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It is...
- 04/02/2011 06:05:05 PM
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Re: It is...
- 04/02/2011 06:31:32 PM
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Yup...
- 04/02/2011 08:20:33 PM
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Semirhage hated Lanfear, but dared not act against her strength...
- 04/02/2011 08:29:24 PM
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yet Graendal showed a lot of respect for Semirhage ... even assumed she was the most
- 04/02/2011 08:53:05 PM
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Graendal on Semirhage and Demandred...
- 04/02/2011 09:23:50 PM
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No
- 04/02/2011 11:10:00 PM
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We will just have to disagree on this one...
- 05/02/2011 06:57:36 AM
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I agree with you here
- 04/02/2011 08:19:35 PM
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I don't think that's true..
- 04/02/2011 08:21:38 PM
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the evidence is that Aginor burnt out trying to channel the Eye and Rand didn't
- 04/02/2011 08:23:50 PM
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I think this is a no brainer
- 04/02/2011 08:22:00 AM
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The nice fact which is proven is the magnitude of the gap between Moghedien and Semirhage...
- 04/02/2011 11:32:00 AM
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Nynaeve could be at 90% or 80% when she faced Moghedien we have no way of measuring that
- 04/02/2011 08:42:03 PM
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Disagree...
- 04/02/2011 08:51:55 PM
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spin it all you like... I'm tired of this arument and your creative quoting.
- 04/02/2011 08:56:14 PM
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The creative quoter is Fionwe, not me. You quote correctly, but your interpretations are way off...
- 04/02/2011 09:05:43 PM
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Nynaeve has grown in strength, but she started nearly as strong as Moiraine!
- 05/02/2011 05:35:05 AM
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Starting out at Moiraine's strength meant starting out at barely 30% of her full potential...
- 05/02/2011 07:05:46 AM
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Nynaeve's strength
- 05/02/2011 07:49:07 AM
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Agree, Egwene has never been as strong as Nynaeve at any stage. *NM*
- 05/02/2011 03:03:25 PM
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I disagree that Moiraine is 30% of Nynaeve. Much closer to 50% of Nynaeve. EDIT
- 05/02/2011 03:02:06 PM
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Minor quibbles aside...
- 05/02/2011 04:05:30 PM
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Agreed, the exact numbers are arbitrary, I place Egwene a tad higher than you ... EDIT
- 05/02/2011 04:30:00 PM
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Re: Agreed, the exact numbers are arbitrary, I place Egwene a tad higher than you ... EDIT
- 05/02/2011 06:09:41 PM
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shrugs
- 05/02/2011 06:46:02 PM
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Re: shrugs
- 05/02/2011 08:03:37 PM
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I don't recall the Merise quote you are refering too and they have not been together in the series
- 05/02/2011 09:20:56 PM
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I'm sorry, I meant the glossary entry...
- 05/02/2011 10:29:46 PM
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Thanks for clarifying
- 05/02/2011 11:12:19 PM
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Re: Thanks for clarifying
- 06/02/2011 12:42:51 AM
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fair enough ... I can agree to Cadsuane and Bode both being 70 with Egwene and co at 80 *NM*
- 06/02/2011 04:29:49 AM
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Sorry, but here your entire Bell Curve goes up in smoke...
- 06/02/2011 01:13:15 PM
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In fact, Moiraine is even STRONGER than I postulated in the above post...
- 06/02/2011 01:22:11 PM
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well...
- 06/02/2011 02:11:02 PM
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Only a separate Bell Curve for the Age of Legends - when the average strength was higher - will work
- 06/02/2011 03:29:49 PM
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Or, you know, the Aes Sedai aren't a representative sample... *NM*
- 06/02/2011 04:19:22 PM
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I don't think Strength was higher in the AOL I think there were just more channelers
- 06/02/2011 04:50:42 PM
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Uhhh... no...
- 06/02/2011 04:18:19 PM
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Read these facts slowly, maybe you will grasp the implication then...
- 06/02/2011 04:41:02 PM
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you are missing the fact that women like Sharina have no interest in the Tower
- 06/02/2011 05:05:10 PM
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You equate random exclusions with the deliberate block exclusion of 37.5% weakest women...
- 06/02/2011 05:41:47 PM
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wrong
- 06/02/2011 06:08:20 PM
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That is weak logic in the extreme...
- 06/02/2011 06:16:46 PM
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what I'm saying is that a representative sample of the entire population
- 06/02/2011 06:40:51 PM
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But you don't prove that the undiscovered women are stronger. They may well be weaker...
- 06/02/2011 07:26:27 PM
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The only implication I grasped is that you don't grasp math...
- 06/02/2011 06:21:12 PM
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Circular reasoning...
- 06/02/2011 07:03:53 PM
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No, reasoning based on facts and what RJ said, both of which you ignore...
- 06/02/2011 07:34:21 PM
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If you're going to ignore direct quotes, then we may as well stop right now...
- 06/02/2011 08:42:40 PM
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off tangent question: Has Nynaeve yet to reach full potential or did she already after being ...
- 04/02/2011 08:39:29 PM
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I think the general concensus is that after the CK she was forced to her full potential
- 05/02/2011 03:44:29 PM
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