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Re: I have wondered for a long time if the Ogier, Rand, Aiel and the Tinkers won't end up DomA Send a noteboard - 06/03/2012 03:10:45 PM
sealing the Bore by Singing. The Song plays a large part in the prophesies of the Tinkers and we've seen the effects of Singing and the new powers of Rand now that he is truly "one with the land" ... I would not be shocked to see them "regrow" the bore rather than patch it up. It would explain how the pattern could be whole again when the AoL returns and has no knowledge of the DO.


I'm totally undecided if Singing will play a role at SG or if it allowed RJ to turn the world into a living hell during the LB (one in which humanity wouldn't survive long even if it wins against the DO) as it provides a way to "heal the land" afterward. I don't think Ogier Singing is that important. Seed Singing required Nym, but my hunch is that Nym were created so that mixed gender circles of AS aren't required to focus the Singing (in other words, AS can do the role of Nym in the process).

The people are already starving, and the few resources left are roting. Rand can affect this, but Rand may not remain around post-TG, or at least his new powers as Champion may not remain (I doubt the point is for Rand to become a living God, and it's what would happen with his current powers. He's rather like a living message/demonstration that the Creator has not abandonned humanity, that his will acts through his Champion. That's not something I expect to remain post-TG, even if Rand were to survive). The LB is set to be fought over the summer (so, basically no agriculture at all this year), which means after the victory, the next winter might finish what Shai'tan didn't manage to do. It's also fairly plausible that the world will face epidemics (they've already begun). I wonder if this isn't the final purpose of the weather ter'angreal and Singing, Healers etc. - to be used to save humanity in the post TG months. What could force the AS and other channellers to fully return to service to humanity? It could be that survival of humanity itself won't leave them a choice, that the world will need them and the Aiel. To engage her alliance of channellers in that task fully might be Egwene's big final contribution, and this would completely alter the way people perceive the channellers and Aiel.

LTT's solution shielded the Bore, sealing it out of reality. It required the OP and touching the DO directly with it to place the seals. That's not the solution, as we know.

It sounds to me like a possible avenue would be to force Shai'tan to release his grip on Creation long enough to heal "the weakness" without having to touch Shai'tan. It would be back, more or less, to the pre-drilling situation. The only thing I can think of that might make Shai'tan temporarily "retreat" is the taint of SL. If the "three becoming one" refer as I think to Rand-Mat-Perrin, that would be like having a mega-ta'veren and we might have to look no further for how the weakness will be removed (by the Wheel or even the Creator acting through the three. Rand used to be a counterpart to Moridin, but post-epiphany Rand seems to be more and more like a counterpart to Shadar Haran.. it could be that what's expected of Rand and humanity is to temporarily force Shai'tan out of Creation, that the "mending of the pattern" itself will then be effected by its Creator itself, working through the three ta'veren. After all, LTT judged himself harshly, balmed his own arrogance to have thought he could mend what the Creator himself had done. Perhaps it's right this requires "godly powers" beyond the reach of humans, and Rand has to deal with what prevents the Creator from mending the weakness created by men with the Bore: Shai'tan's grip on Creation. That the Pattern will "heal itself" or that the Creator will then act, would be a big leap of faith (and Fel's "order and belief" may be a hint that it's heading this way). Before the epiphany, LTT thought the Creator didn't care/had abandonned them to their own devices. I'm thinking the conditions in which the Creator will want to or be able to act just aren't met. Early in "AMOL" (Jordan's original 1 book plan, I mean) we learn that Shai'tan is the True Power. Everything in the Pattern, the Pattern itself, is the One Power. It seems to follow that the Creator "body"/energy is thus Creation itself. This could mean that by his own choice to make Creation, the Creator has forsaken the power to interfere with it, as all his energy is invested in it. So to be able to "mend" the Bore, which might require knowledge/skills only the Creator have, he might need the three ta'veren "as one" to focus humanity. Rand would in effect be the vessel through which the Creator can make the alterations/reparations to remove the Bore, but this can't be done while Shai'tan grips it.

It could well be that Singing plays a role in the mending. I get the feeling that Singing is a "passive" way of using the One Power, and that what can be achieved is greatly affected by the nature/actions of those who do Sing (unlike weaves, that directly affect the Pattern following the will of the channeler, I think Singing simply "betters the Pattern", so to speak. Creates near ideal conditions for the Wheel to reshape things to an extent). Aiel warriors still sing, battle songs and mourning songs only, and though Singing is in their genes, this does nothing at all. I think it may have surfaced when the Da'shain philosophy reached a certain stage of purity, and in turn have driven them to even more extremist behaviors/beliefs.
This message last edited by DomA on 06/03/2012 at 03:29:06 PM
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So who thinks Elayne will die in aMoL? - 29/02/2012 04:02:07 AM 1789 Views
Given the various Foretellings and Min Viewings the only way Elayne can die - 29/02/2012 05:48:50 AM 927 Views
Dying in childbirth would be totally lame - 29/02/2012 09:34:47 AM 895 Views
There is the one vision Min had of Aveinda where she was going to have 4? babies but it was odd *NM* - 29/02/2012 04:53:46 PM 416 Views
That's nothing to do with Elayne - 29/02/2012 05:19:39 PM 895 Views
Or does it? - 10/03/2012 06:21:53 PM 688 Views
She's already gone from Caemlyn at the timeof the attack, at the meeting in Merrilor - 29/02/2012 05:29:27 PM 1050 Views
Going to have to agree 100% *NM* - 29/02/2012 06:42:15 PM 486 Views
I also get the feeling that RJ isn't going to kill off any main characters - 29/02/2012 10:44:29 PM 711 Views
Ok... - 01/03/2012 03:23:11 AM 765 Views
practically speaking you're correct. But this is a fantasy novel with a pro-protagonist tone - 01/03/2012 04:24:38 PM 723 Views
I disagree... - 01/03/2012 06:29:32 PM 900 Views
not everyone, but I'd bet the core group all survives - 02/03/2012 05:51:03 AM 842 Views
Re: not everyone, but I'd bet the core group all survives - 04/03/2012 06:46:12 PM 711 Views
Re: not everyone, but I'd bet the core group all survives - 04/03/2012 07:32:31 PM 774 Views
Re: not everyone, but I'd bet the core group all survives - 05/03/2012 01:54:49 AM 824 Views
is there any chance that the broken crown could refer to Manethrean? (sp?) - 05/03/2012 02:10:17 AM 805 Views
Perrin bringing Manthrean back seems unlikely - 05/03/2012 04:28:57 PM 813 Views
No, I realize that - 05/03/2012 09:12:56 PM 716 Views
Re: No, I realize that - 06/03/2012 02:14:14 AM 864 Views
Ahhh. I had forgotten that particular detail - 06/03/2012 02:45:28 PM 705 Views
Re: Ahhh. I had forgotten that particular detail - 07/03/2012 03:43:59 AM 722 Views
oh pllp. clearly I haven't read much lately - 07/03/2012 02:02:20 PM 854 Views
- 09/03/2012 12:43:57 PM 670 Views
Re: not everyone, but I'd bet the core group all survives - 06/03/2012 01:47:08 AM 866 Views
Re: not everyone, but I'd bet the core group all survives - 05/03/2012 01:51:46 AM 953 Views
I think Lan will live just to spite the character *NM* - 05/03/2012 02:11:59 AM 471 Views
Re: not everyone, but I'd bet the core group all survives - 06/03/2012 02:35:23 AM 811 Views
RJ says otherwise - 07/03/2012 02:08:23 PM 841 Views
Re: RJ says otherwise - 08/03/2012 04:53:42 AM 922 Views
I kind of disagree - 08/03/2012 05:21:33 AM 884 Views
Re: I kind of disagree - 08/03/2012 01:39:40 PM 836 Views
You misunderstand my point - 09/03/2012 05:31:09 AM 771 Views
Re: I also get the feeling that RJ isn't going to kill off any main characters - 01/03/2012 03:10:35 PM 901 Views
I didn't know Naelson was a Darkfriend, or Tylin either. What about Jaim? - 02/03/2012 01:45:57 AM 927 Views
they're not main characters either - 02/03/2012 05:58:13 AM 824 Views
I wouldn't even consider Morgase to be a MAIN character. - 02/03/2012 12:28:41 PM 848 Views
Verin is the most significant character to die that I recall - 01/03/2012 04:50:51 PM 834 Views
Hope or think? *NM* - 01/03/2012 06:30:58 PM 427 Views
Oh God I hope she does *NM* - 02/03/2012 01:48:46 AM 635 Views
i don't think she will....just hoping. *NM* - 04/03/2012 09:55:06 AM 537 Views
It's fairly doubtful - 04/03/2012 04:34:01 PM 916 Views
Agreed. - 04/03/2012 06:37:25 PM 639 Views
Re: Agreed. - 04/03/2012 08:38:45 PM 789 Views
I expect Moiraine to be the second woman to link with Rand - 05/03/2012 02:08:44 AM 786 Views
I'm very suspicious of the whole "Callandor" theory.... - 06/03/2012 03:27:05 AM 987 Views
I have wondered for a long time if the Ogier, Rand, Aiel and the Tinkers won't end up - 06/03/2012 04:04:13 AM 575 Views
Re: I have wondered for a long time if the Ogier, Rand, Aiel and the Tinkers won't end up - 06/03/2012 03:10:45 PM 854 Views
We have similar thought processes on this *NM* - 07/03/2012 01:47:39 PM 386 Views
I don't see Singing playing any role in TG - 08/03/2012 05:08:24 AM 670 Views
Have you read ToM? - 08/03/2012 07:52:46 AM 735 Views
Re: I don't see Singing playing any role in TG - 08/03/2012 02:07:31 PM 775 Views
I expect Rand to "die" - 05/03/2012 02:07:55 AM 657 Views

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