There was some discussion immediately after the release, but it seems to have tapered off.
So, the book. I enjoyed it. I mean, I thought
Towers of Midnight was pretty abominable and avoiding spoilers on this board means I hadn't actually thought about
The Wheel of Time that much going in, and so was not expecting every reveal as much as I previously did. Still, I'm pretty sure this was better than
Towers of Midnight. I liked that even at this stage they threw in the notion of killing Shai'tan as a red herring. I liked the sabotage of the Great Captains because for once it felt like the antagonists were actually doing something. And it was a good plan at that.
Let me continue ranting about Towers of Midnight a bit, hypothetical reader of this post. I really hated Elayne's chapters in that book. Now, for many people, as I recall, this wouldn't be much of a declaration. A lot of people hated Elayne's storyline. She took a very upsetting bath, or something. I don't quite remember, I need to reread the series. Point is, a lot of people didn't like reading about her attempts to reclaim the throne of Andor. But me, I was fine with it. Then she decided to seize Cairhien and the book was trying very hard to convince me that she was clever with all those stratagems she was throwing about, but the problem is that there was nobody else on the other side trying anything. She was trying to overcome a static obstacle. Now, I'm pretty sure that's not how international monarchic politics work, but I'm not a politician.
I do, however, play StarCraft and there is a massive difference in playing a single player or multiplayer game. This difference is mostly that the AI is stupid and predictable and even as a D+ rank player on ICCup I can still take out multiple AIs at the same time. I mean, when you can't match wits with your opponent, the only was to simulate a challenge is to stack the odds against you.
But the odds aren't really that overwhelming for Elayne. No matter what she does, since she never has to fear a counterattack, she can pretty much just wear down her obstacles over time. She's the only actor on the field. The same thing happened in The Gathering Storm when Egwene tried to turn the Tower against Elaida. Elaida never even attempted a respectable counterargument. It's not like Egwene's claims to be the worthwhile Amyrlin on the basis that she is a uniter, not a divider like Elaida. And it's not like Egwene's movement is founded on a lie ostracising the largest Ajah in the Tower as terrorist supporters. And it's not like Elaida is part of that Ajah and would have personal reasons to bring it up. It's not like that, because it is that. But Egwene is playing solo so she needn't fear something she isn't prepared for. There is no real threat.
That's a really interesting way of putting it, and it does a good job. From what other people, more knowledgable about the writing mechanics, have said this sort of thing can probably be blamed on Sanderson. I know DomA was pointing out how there were plotlines that RJ would have handled with one or two PoV chapters and filled in the gaps in between by having other characters hear about, or observe that plotline in action (Aviendha's pointless tasks and mounting frustration in tGS, being the example he used). Another example being that Sanderson is really not very good at conveying details and impressions as economically as Jordan did, requiring more pages to say less, and not being able to keep a plotline going between the lines of other characters. Jordan was also more subtle. When he had a character say "that was very clever" he did it to show you how the speaker perceives the one he calls clever (i.e. Egwene observing Rand's machinations with the High Lords in Tear in the big Heart of the Stone conference; her statement was not about how clever Rand was, as that had already been alluded to by the perspective of Moiraine; Egwene's statement was to illustrate how far Rand has come by showing us the reaction of another Two Rivers person, and also showed how for all her Dreaming ability and channeling strength, Egwene was still very unsophisticated) With that in mind, when Sanderson has a character say the same thing, all he is doing is telling the readers that something was clever. Sometimes I felt like people were only telling each other how clever a character or plan was, because Sanderson doesn't know how to show you a clever plan.
I think the Elayne storyline in ToM might have been made into a bigger deal through Sanderson's writing than Jordan would have made it. I don't think Jordan would have needed so many chapters to do it, and it might have been one of those things happening in the background, with maybe an exposition character telling Rand "Oh, you just might want to know, Elayne's been crowned in Cairhien, she has half the nobles of each country bound to her by estates in the other nation, and she's rallying the troops for Merilor. Word is, she's going to be supporting the Amyrlin instead of you..."
And speaking of Elayne, Rand found out he's going to be a father off-screen? Seriously?
So in
A Memory of Light, I'm glad we got that with the Great Captains. Or with Taim stealing the Seals on Shai'tan's prison. It's good to get the feeling that there's finally someone out there
confronting our protagonists. And it's a bit of redemption for Graendal, after her abysmally stupid "I will find the eprson in this camp with the most established record of trying to kill Perrin Aybara and Compel him to kill Aybara! It is a perfect plan! PLOTS WITHIN PLOTS!" notion from last time. Well done Graendal, you didn't follow a spectacular failure with another spectacular failure, like Semirhage. Or Aginor.
Of course, that didn't hold true for most of the Last Battle. After Demandred destroyed Mat's cannons, he pretty much didn't do anything but wait for the battle to end. I think. I'll be honest, I really didn't follow where this formation was going to engage with what unit for whatever purpose. Because I don't care. I once explained why I loved Robert Jordan's sword forms so much: when there's a sword fight, the writer is pretty much trying to tell me either that this guy is trying to kill that guy with a sword, or that this guy is trying to use a sword to not get killed by that guy. Do I care that he is trying to slip under his guard in a sudden upward slash from the right hip that followed his high feint blah blah blah? No I do not. This is so much wasted words on unimportant details. I know they're whacking swords at each other, all right? I don't need the play by play. I don't need the action to be interrupted by sudden sentences of descriptions. Sword forms require far fewer words, and allow my imagination to picture the fight however I feel most appropriate.
Another excellent example! This is something I bet would have been totally missing from WoT if Sanderson had wrote it from the beginning. From the one fight scene I read in Mistborn, he loves the fight coreography (and he's pretty good at it, but that's neither here nor there). But you're right - that's what I mean about Jordan conveying an impression with fewer words, that surprisingly vivid despite being short of specifics.
Battles are the same. And there was a lot of moving this unit clockwise and charging the whatever flank on the sloping blah blah in this book. Look, here's my favourite battle description of all time:
Aragorn and Éomer and Imrahil rode back towards the Gate of the City, and they were now weary beyond joy or sorrow. These three were unscathed, for such was their fortune and the skill and might of their arms, and few indeed had dared to abide them or look on their faces in the hour of their wrath.
The Battle of Pelennor Fields, The Lord of the Rings
It is enough that I know that they kicked arse because they are awesome, said awesomeness having been previously established in the book. And had that awesomeness not been established, no amount of slaughter of nameless minions if going to rectify this problem.
IDK, Jordan was really good at the battle scenes, and I always liked them, but as with the sword forms, when you think back on it, despite their vividness, they were light on detail. I mean, that campaign against the Seanchan in PoD was awesome, you had a really clear vision of what Rand was trying to do, and it had a very authentic feel to it, with the chaos, and scattered units blundering into one another, and commanders forming impressions based on guesswork and a couple of encounters. Very much not at all like clearly marked formations moving as directed on a map or game board. Tarmon Gaidon, on the other hand, had a lot of the latter. The relative military experience of Sanderson & Jordan was showing in that comparison, IMO.
That said, I still liked how the battle was written, and it had the feel of an epic, world-wide, all-or-nothing titanic struggle. Not Jordan, but it got the job done.
A Memory of Light had a lot of battle. A lot more than it needed to. I mean, I know that it's Tarmon Gai'don, but I,d have been more interested in knowing how the people reacted to that fact than in knowing who charged what.
Incidentally, didn't the battle feel a bit small to anyone else? I haven't gone back to compare, but it feels like Elayne had a diminutive force when I think back to the numbers that were mentioned back during the Succession War. And what of Tear, Illian, Cairhien? Those formed Rand's army during the Seanchan campaign in The Path of Daggers. They're also very powerful nations. What happened to their armies? And Roedran showed up at Merrilor but were Murandian forces ever on the battlefield?I don't know. Part of the problem with Sanderson is that its like a report on characters you're invested in. You want to know what happens, but it is not much fun to read. The final trilogy has had absolutely no re-read value for me, and I am someone who re-read the first 11 books constantly, to the point where I really could not answer quick polls asking how many times you've read the series, because I'd pick it up and read a few chapters here or there, or select a favorite book to read all the way through, or a less favorite book but which I have gone the longest without reading and thus is relatively fresh... Aside from a quick run through tGS and ToM before their successors came out, I have hardly re-read Sanderson's books at all, and have little & less desire to do so. The end result is that I'm very light on the specifics and details of that sort of thing, whereas once upon a time, I could have named all the Seanchan PoV commanders from PoD or the lines of the battle of Cairhien on a map of the surrounding terrain. I had a clear impression of where the fighting was and what happened during Arymilla's final assault on Caemlyn. I couldn't tell you what Talmanes was doing, lurching around the city recruiting mercenaries and finding the dragons and so forth.
Then there's the channelers. Demandred gloats to Taim that he has four hundred Ayyad to Taim's hundred Dreadlords... but isn't that a minuscule number? Doesn't the White Tower alone crush that force? I don't remember how many are left after the Seanchan raid, the Black Ajah egress, the Yellow Ajah setting up their hospital... still, with the Wise Ones and the loyal Asha'man, surely they have this number outmatched even before the intervention of the damane. It felt to me like there were maybe a hundred channelers for the Light, all battlefields combined. There was barely anyone helping Lan at Tarwin's Gap! Only a few small circles defending Rand at Thakan'dar. Where were the channelers?
See above, re: flaws in the writing leaving me unsure and unable to verify stuff like that.
Anyway. I still liked Demandred quite a bit. His numerous duels started wearing thin, even though they were obviously building up for Lan's eventual triumph. I may have to apologise to Ishamael666 regarding his opinion on Lan's UNSTOPPABLE JUGGERNAUTness*.
Ha! Good old times on wotmania. Poor Scratch.
But mostly, I have to love how he just gave Mazrim Taim a powerful
sa'angreal just so he'd stop whining. The cocky bastard. I have to love that.
Actually, the Forsaken in general were pretty decent in this book, even those that barely showed up, like Moghedien or Lanfear. In their contributions to the narrative, if not necessarily in their characterisation.
Most of all, though, I really loved Rand's battle with Shai'tan. I loved that it was Rand's own vision that nearly broke him. I may not agree with Robert Jordan's theodicy, but it made for a good story, and this in particular made for a beautiful trap. Rand created paradise and it was as terrible a thing as he could imagine. That could break a man, surely.
The resolutions felt strange though. Sometimes they worked, and sometimes they didn't. I would need to reread the series to be certain, but I would have sworn that certain characters, Alviarin, Taim, Logain, would play a far larger role than they did, for example. The White Tower's conflict may have lasted over half the series, but the entire Black Tower division was done offscreen? What? Also, I could have sworn the Tuatha'an and their Song would show up at some point in the series.
Nope. I've been saying for years they were at most a red herring, and more accurrately, they were an illustration of the theme of misremembered history and how even things that were not true can motivate people in a powerful way. The Tinkers have been stubbornly clinging to their beliefs and lifestyle and traveling the world for 3,000 years looking for a song that did not ever exist, when what they were actually remembering was simply an agricultural aid. It would be like us having an apocalypse and 3,000 years from now, people are wandering the world looking for the holy elixir of "Insecticide" or "Manure" that will bring back the good old days.
Any point at all. And the character deaths. Some surprised me, but were clearly planned out and fit into the narrative. Gawyn, Egwene, Davram Bashere. Others were pretty mystifying. What happened to Siuan?
D-E-D.
Anyway, it ended well enough. Fairly predictable. Except for Cadsuane, I would have sworn of all people, she would be one of the casualties. I even wrote a Theory about it on the Theory Post. Obviously, Cadsuane continues to vex me. So that's normal.
I loved that she got made Amyrlin. Short of the Tower being dissolved in the chaos, that was the best outcome I could have asked for.
Oh, and the ending brought tears to my eyes. Why? Because Khas' shrivelled balls are you really going to let your father believe his only son is dead, you arsehole? Tam has been living with only his beloved adopted son ever since Kari died forever ago. You can tell from his continued celibacy that he doesn't easily get over the loss of loved ones, but he still trusted Rand enough to let him go when his destiny forced him out of Emond's Field. In a series with Perrin worrying over Faile, with bonded lovers anguishing over perceived feelings through their link, and where Nynaeve letting Lan go off to his solitary crusade is a high point for the characters, I think we can all agree that Tam letting Rand do what he needs to do while giving him only good advice, his love and a heron-marked sword is clearly the mark of the greatest father ever. It's also his advice that lets Rand defeat Shai'tan. So there's that. Also, he told Cadsuane everything I ever wanted her to be told.
Tam was awesome, although I would like to give Cadsuane props for recognizing he was right and taking it like a grownup instead of just punishing him anyway to save face, like 99% of her sisters would have done. Also, there was a lot of unfair blame dumped on her in that incident. She wanted Tam going in as Rand's long-lost father, not some carefully prepared psychiatrist or hostage negotiator. Briefing Tam would have served no purpose, and it turns out he ignored what she did tell him, namely "don't mention Cadsuane" and he ignored that instruction, and Rand snapped as a result. And given the significance of the savior of the world losing his temper and disappearing in a fit of temper, explicitly because Tam ignored Cadsuane's instructions, can you blame her for getting pissed at him? I mean, the ONE THING she told him, and he ignores her. And then has to temerity to complain that Rand's nothing like he remembers. No shit, Tam. That's why Cadsuane told you not to mention her name! He's nothing like you remember, but Cadsuane's been with him for months. MAYBE SHE KNOWS WHAT SHE'S TALKING ABOUT?
But he can be a nincompoop all he wants if he's going to redeem himself with awesome scene where he has the archers cover Lan's charge at Demandred.
What I'm getting at here is that Tam al'Thor is a saint, you guys, and if I were Rand's brother I would be punching him in the nose right now. Not telling Nynaeve is dick move enough, with her feeling like a failure already for losing Egwene, but this is unacceptable. It is becoming evident that I was wrong all along and that Cadsuane did not smack Rand enough.
Never doubt Cannoli.
http://www.readandfindout.com/wheeloftime/messageboard/119338/
Clearly, Galad needs to set out on a quest to find him and rectify this oversight. He is Rand's half-brother, and it is the Right Thing To Do, so clearly this is a sequel that writes itself. Galadedrid Damodred smacks the Dragon Reborn, a sequel to the #1 New York Times bestseller by Robert Jordan.
I like to think that after realizing what a drag it is riding through a depopulated land ravaged by war, eventually Rand will seek out his friends and loved ones and let them know he's not dead but keep it quiet please? And included in that would be establishing a relationship with his brother (who's probably missing his only other brother, although since that's Gawyn, I can't for the life of me figure out why) and his offspring.
*Internet archaeologists may point out that Ishamael666's UNSTOPPABLE JUGGERNAUT comment was actually about Alivia, and that his opinion about Lan was that he was worth three Gawyns because he was described as a wolf rather than a lion, or something like that. This is irrelevant. Ishamael666 has become legend, and is fading to myth.
And he will be long forgotten when the age that gave him birth comes round again.
