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Re: The way I see it, DomA Send a noteboard - 22/08/2013 03:40:52 AM

View original postit comes down to Verin's Tel'aran'rhiod paradox. The Dark One is free in all worlds, or he is free in none. If the Shadow kills or Turns Rand he cannot choose to give Shai'tan victory.

It's probably not as deep a paradox as Verin thought. She was explaining things as if all those worlds were "real" and what happened in one of them could influence the "real world". In fact it's most likely just reflections. The Wheel is not programmed to project what might happen beyond the moment of Shai'tan's victory. He is foreign to the Pattern. A victory of Shai'tan in the "Mirror Worlds" doesn't compute, no more than Viewings and Foretelling could tell if Shai'tan would win... those post TG were all projections of what could happen if Shai'tan lost. Shai'tan won in several Mirror Worlds, but that would never free him. It would have to happen in the real world for this to be reflected everywhere.. for as long as the Pattern lasts after that anyway.

The more interesting paradox (which shed some interesting light on a few things happening in the series, notably the fact Shai'tan does not appear to learn much or have memories of past confrontations to share with his "Champion" Moridin, to his great frustration) was this: outside the Pattern, in the "prison", time doesn't exist. Rand stepped outside time to confront Shai'tan. This strongly suggests that what appeared to Rand to be a unique confrontation, from Shai'tan's perspective was rather an infinitely multi-dimensional single confrontation. To the DO, all the LB from the first to the last (if there is such a final one planned) is one moment in an infinity of variants all happening in that single moment. And he lost. For good. He lost all the Battles before, and he lost all the ones from the future too as otherwise the past in which the story's third Age is set would have been undone even if Rand won...

Of course Ages will past and the world will forget it's already won that Battle.

The circularity of time in Creation means an infinity of confrontations happen through time... within the Pattern. For the DO outside it's all one battle outside time and space. It's much like the Bore which has a location in the physical world, a kind of manifestation of what it really is, because the physical rules of Creation forced things to exist in space and time, but that was actually a global weakness that's everywhere and nowhere because what it touches on is a dimension with neither space nor time.

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Who did try to send Bayle Domon east, and why? - 29/07/2013 10:03:15 AM 2054 Views
Dark Friends - 29/07/2013 05:04:02 PM 1278 Views
Re: Dark Friends - 29/07/2013 05:08:41 PM 1190 Views
It's fairly obvious, Jordan-style (ie: a few cl;ues, you have to think it up yourself) - 30/07/2013 02:56:55 PM 1358 Views
Mmh I would need to re-read the relevant chapter... - 30/07/2013 03:01:51 PM 1204 Views
At that point the Shadow had PLENTY of resources in Illian though. - 18/08/2013 01:06:06 PM 1281 Views
Re: At that point the Shadow had PLENTY of resources in Illian though. - 18/08/2013 06:12:46 PM 1121 Views
Still sounds like rationalization to me (no offense.) - 19/08/2013 03:19:51 PM 1341 Views
Re: Still sounds like rationalization to me (no offense.) - 19/08/2013 05:56:29 PM 1163 Views
Rand (or ter'angreal Rand) seemed to think it would. - 20/08/2013 03:34:29 AM 1160 Views
The way I see it, - 20/08/2013 04:36:30 AM 1143 Views
Right, so Rand either serves the Shadow in all worlds or none. - 20/08/2013 04:58:51 AM 1129 Views
Re: The way I see it, - 22/08/2013 03:40:52 AM 1126 Views
That's pretty much what I think, and also why I don't think there's one 'real' world. - 22/08/2013 04:01:44 AM 1211 Views
Re: That's pretty much what I think, and also why I don't think there's one 'real' world. - 22/08/2013 07:54:43 PM 1129 Views
I see. - 23/08/2013 03:43:22 AM 1221 Views
Re: Still sounds like rationalization to me (no offense.) - 22/08/2013 03:57:04 AM 1112 Views
Yeah, it works on that level, as noted in that response: - 22/08/2013 08:40:30 AM 1163 Views

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