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Egwene vs Rand, a retrospective gban007 Send a noteboard - 19/11/2013 03:28:06 AM

As mentioned in my previous post, I am currently listening to the Audiobooks for the Wheel of Time, which is giving me a different perspective, as I can't skim or skip sections as I do when reading.

While I am only on Lord of Chaos currently, with plenty more to go, my main views on Egwene and Rand based on the books were pretty well formed by this point, so I think this is a reasonable point to have a retrospective on it.

I have found that Egwene isn't as bad as I previously remembered, and there are certain passages where I can see how this has shifted.
One example of this is where Rand is threatening to hang any Aiel, including chieftans, if that man committed a crime against a wetlander.
I remembered this as Egwene thinking it is foolish to make such a threat, that the Aiel were the only people truly behind him and he is going to turn him against them, all the while being arrogant to boot.
Instead, having to listen to every word, I see that she actually agreed with the threat, that the Aiel should pay if committing a crime, it was just she didn't like the way he presented it, that he was arrogant in doing so. While I disagree that he was arrogant, it is a more reasonable view than I remember.

There are other similar passages, and passages where I think my view of what happened was coloured by my view of Egwene.

Instead, now I see that, especially once leaders, Rand and Egwene have many similarities, and in some respects seem sides of the same coin, which is likely intentional.

They both can be strong leaders, quite ruthless, and both have quite large flaws - Rand with his rage especially, Egwene more with her arrogance.

I think what makes me like Rand, and dislike Egwene, as I seem to be more accepting of his rages, basically believing that he genuinely can't control this, but is trying the best he can, while I dislike arrogance (pride in one's self I can handle, arrogance I can't). Rand listens to those around him, and is willing to have his mind changed / back down if pointed out he is being foolish, but Egwene seems to believe that it is her way or the highway, and will tend to act / decide alone, and doesn't seem to back down if proven wrong (something Nynaeve seems to share as well).

Both will make assumptions based on insufficient evidence, which is fine, but while Rand will tend to accept it is an assumption (though make some stupid decisions based on the assumption, when I would think he could take a bit more time to get more information), once an assumption is formed by Egwene, she seems to accept it as fact (like her view on the gifts Rand received from Aviendha).

I think the EotW portrays these characteristics of both reasonably well, though Rand has a lot less rage, which helped form an early opinion of liking one but not the other.

However, I think that I let this view colour my impression of future books.

I still believe that Egwene wasn't a good leader, but I think she made the best of the situation she was put into (she didn't want to be the Amrylin Seat after all, and given the alternatives, was probably as good if not the best choice anyway), and Rand was just as bad a leader, he learnt a lot from Moiraine that helped him try and be a good leader, but his lack of control over his rage tended to lead him to undo any good work he did manage. Rand's leadership 'improved' when he basically turned it over to Darlin, Dobraine and the like, instead of ruling directly, whereas Egwene didn't have the luxury of having good people she could hand power to - I think the only two Aes Sedai that would have made better leaders are Cadsuane (though I think she still would not be a good leader), and Moiraine.

To make a long point (my apologies) short, I think I have been unduly harsh on Egwene and unduly kind on Rand in the past, and now find Egwene a character I could like (will reserve judgement until I finish all the audiobooks ), though with flaws still, and while Rand is still my favourite character, I find myself disliking some of what he is doing, when in the past I tended to find justification for whatever he did.

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Egwene vs Rand, a retrospective - 19/11/2013 03:28:06 AM 1526 Views
Re: Egwene vs Rand, a retrospective - 19/11/2013 06:55:35 AM 1062 Views
Re: Egwene vs Rand, a retrospective - 19/11/2013 04:12:26 PM 892 Views
Re: Egwene vs Rand, a retrospective - 21/11/2013 06:02:28 AM 719 Views
Re: Egwene vs Rand, a retrospective - 21/11/2013 02:07:35 PM 822 Views
Re: Egwene vs Rand, a retrospective - 23/11/2013 07:10:34 PM 935 Views
Re: Egwene vs Rand, a retrospective - 21/11/2013 06:00:44 AM 915 Views
She does perhaps get less credit than she deserves. - 19/11/2013 09:41:49 PM 937 Views
Re: She does perhaps get less credit than she deserves. - 21/11/2013 06:14:14 AM 691 Views
Re: Egwene vs Rand, a retrospective - 21/11/2013 06:08:25 PM 923 Views
Re: Egwene vs Rand, a retrospective - 23/11/2013 07:25:44 PM 869 Views
Re: Egwene vs Rand, a retrospective - 24/11/2013 04:37:34 AM 935 Views
Re: Egwene vs Rand, a retrospective - 24/11/2013 06:08:28 AM 745 Views
Re: Egwene vs Rand, a retrospective - 02/12/2013 03:53:57 PM 861 Views
Re: Egwene vs Rand, a retrospective - 03/12/2013 05:14:57 AM 720 Views
Re: Egwene vs Rand, a retrospective - 03/12/2013 12:39:02 PM 820 Views
Well... - 04/12/2013 05:54:16 AM 702 Views
Okay, I can get behind that... - 06/12/2013 11:39:23 AM 722 Views
Re: Well... - 06/12/2013 06:37:50 PM 702 Views
Re: Well... - 06/12/2013 07:17:26 PM 643 Views
Go Egwene! - 22/11/2013 02:24:51 PM 749 Views
Exactly! She died as she lived; trying to wield too much power - 22/11/2013 04:05:51 PM 765 Views
Re: Go Egwene! - 23/11/2013 07:26:10 PM 706 Views
Egwene wasn't Rand's enemy in the middle books, but she obviously was bitter/jealous of him - 04/12/2013 02:47:06 PM 971 Views
I quite enjoyed that scene - 05/12/2013 05:32:38 AM 647 Views

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