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Re: How I see Traveling... Sidious Send a noteboard - 30/12/2015 07:41:43 AM


“Yes,” he continued. “Traveling requires great strength in the One Power, but I can make large gateways. Before this all went wrong, the largest I ever made was a gateway thirty feet across.”

Pevara blinked. “Surely you’re exaggerating.”


One pace is 3 feet, so Rand's are 12 feet by 12 feet, much smaller than Androl's. Again, hate to bring this up, grain of salt, and all that.


Okay not to nitpick but it's probably about surface area. I've written this in previous theories and you're welcome to correlate - I'm not being argumentative. Rand is at 144 square feet. If Androl wove 30 feet across he would equal 144 if his gateway was 5 feet high. I fully expect Androl to equal 144, but I don't think that this has been individually surpassed in the series.



Uhhh... you do know he tied off those gateways and had them dissipate soon so only a few would reach all the different places, right? The only Gateway he left open was the one for Sevanna, and we don't get any size for that. We only get Shaidar Haran come soon after, and say there were 3 Gateways he could sense, and there was at least one of saidar. We don't know what the sizes were. Was Sammael keeping his the same size as Graendal's to not have anyone suspicious about the different sizes? Was even Graendal making the largest she could, given that the point wasn't to cleanly let each sept make it fully, but to just let random numbers reach random places to increase chaos?

I think this is a pretty appalling argument. How does it benefit Sammael to weave smaller gateways if he's trying to sow chaos around Randland? Less troops could get through. So what if it's tied off? Rand ties his deathgates off and they're all 4x4.

In ACOS Sammael weaves a gateway of 5x3. This equals about 94% of Rand's gateway. Sammael was an estimated effective strength of 98 so the correlation is excellent!


Also, mind telling me where we see the size for Osan'gar's gateway? The only instance we do it is said the Gateway was square, and its height was "greater than a man on a horse", which can be anything.

It's not an accurate estimation but a rough one. Dashiva weaves a gateway in ACoS (Hill of the Golden Dawn). We know that Perrin could ride through on his horse and that the edge of the gateway was 'well above his head' and that the Shaido gaishain could walk through four abreast. Find attached a picture of a man on a horse http://i.imgur.com/3Ue2TMF.jpg. If the man on the ground is about 6' then the man on the horse is visibly less than twice as high, so less than 12' (Lol, I can't believe we're such nerds). Perrin says that the gateway clears him significantly. Also remember that Rand passed through himself and he is 6'5" on a large gelding, and thus bigger than the men in this picture. However, we also know that Loial bent his knees going through. Loial is about 10' tall but we don't know if the gateway is smaller than this because Perrin also ducked saying that he was wary of the edges of the gateway.

Now find attached a picture of four soldiers abreast http://i.imgur.com/XcNs6xU.jpg. I hope you are very grateful for all the effort I took for you You can see that the total length abreast is about 2-3m (6-9 feet). It's also impossible that the gaishain walked 4 abreast touching the edges of the gateway, so it must have exceeded 9 feet in diameter by a reasonable margin. So that is a long and drawn out explanation of why Dashiva's gateway is probably close to Rand's in size.


Then what the heck is setting Gateway size? Rand and Asmodean say it has nothing to do with the OP, and is a "dream of a dream".

And how the hell does a 'dream of a dream' help us any more than our other theories. What is that anyway? It's the most pointless evidence we've ever had in the series.


That makes zero sense. Why would frigging 99% have only average Talent? Something so far from a normal distribution would have a major reason behind it.

It doesn't make zero sense, it's merely a possibility. Travelling might be like Healing in that it is distributed from 0 to 100 between channelers, or it might be like seeing Ta'veren in that it's zero or 100.


More, Rand DOESN'T use Gateway size to judge strength:

KoD(Vows) - "Why are you still holding the Power?" he asked suddenly. "And so much. If you're trying to show me that you're stronger than I am I already know it. I saw how large your deathgates were compared to mine. And I'd say you're holding every drop of saidin you can hold safely."

I don't understand what the point of this statement is from Logain aka RJ if you construe it as ignorance. We know that men don't know how strong other men really are, so gateways are clearly an excellent way of showing true strength differences. So why can Logain choose deathgates to judge strength differences and not measured saidin which Rand is holding right next to him? Rand even says earlier that Logain is slightly weaker than him right in that scene.


But, per Rand, there's a limit to that. If she goes from 75 to 96, she won't increase her Gateway size, for example. So once again, it seems actual strength has not much to do with the maximum sized Gateway you can make.

But we know there is a limit to that - Rand told us himself. I have never claimed that he uses all of his saidin to make his biggest gateway. I said it's tied in with his potential, and probably with the how much his mind has accommodated being a channeler. It's visible when he skims and Asmodean remarks on his impressive abilities making a platform for the Aiel. Clearly when he overextends the platform gets soft and he's reached his limit.

Clearly anyone with 72 strength can Travel, so you need that amount of saidar, and maybe a little more saidin to Travel. That will make a gateway of x size and if any channeler adds y in strength then they can make their biggest gateway. Y can vary and maybe that's Talent which explains why Flinn needs more Y than other AM. Y is maybe X plus 20% or some other random number... but any channeler who is stronger than X+20% doesn't use all their strength to Travel. Therefore if the minimum strength to travel is 72 (level 19) then it is possible that the largest gateway can be made with 86 strength (Level 9/Cadsuane). Therefore Cadsuane would need 100% of her strength to make her biggest gateway but anyone above her would not. That's a theory of random unproven numbers to illustrate my theory.

Or you need 72 strength to Travel + Y (Talent Amplifier). Y can be from minus 1000% to 1000% in which case you can get people as strong as Demandred who can't Travel and weak people like Androl who can. Both are possible.


Yes, but you're saying he has an incredible amount of Talent, but there's nothing between him and someone with average Talent. That seems just stupid to me.

Are we saying Berowin is great with Shields, but everyone else is average? Or that there are gradations?


Well we DON'T KNOW. Who else do you know like Berowin? Or better yet, who else do you know that says "I am pretty good with shields" to any degree.

Why can't the BT reconcile Androl's ability even though there are 1000 males who can channel? Maybe the Talent is linear to strength except in the rarest of people. Unlike Healing.


Yet, no proof that Rand's Gateway Talent is average. Didn't Asmodean once say Rand stopping a Gateway from closing was something few could replicate, and doesn't that indicate he may be better with Gateways than the average?

Only three known channelers can block a gateway, and who knows what that means. Talent, skill, strength?


Because she had extraordinary levels of Talent. Unless you think there's a Talent for making chairs dance...

That is nonsense. It's often instinct too. We've seen it tons of times in the series in gifted channelers. Where did Egwene get the Flame of Tar Valon from? Latra Posae? Gifted channelers have intuition regarding the Power.


Fists of Spirit imply precision and skill to me, not raw power.

The original guide (BWB) says you can be stilled if you face a much greater power. I don't know how you can claim that fists describe something with finesse or skill. Sounds like a giant weave of Spirit to squash them like flies, much like when women mess around with ter'angreal.

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