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I think she's the most deadly and intelligent. The others are idiots, IMHO. RugbyPlayingAshaman Send a noteboard - 05/11/2009 06:38:30 PM
Here is the hole in your theory: any attack or fight with the One Power is potentially an instantly brutal or fatal force. So she wouldn't have to predict the exact nature of the attack - does it matter if you are hit with balefire, a needle-thin dagger of Air or a massive lightning strike? On a metaphysical level, yes, but in terms of your present circumstances, death is death. I just don't see Graendal pulling a Lanfear/Ishamael and standing around taunting an opponent who has access to the Choedan Kal when she can just run away. She's just not that kind of villain. I think she's the most dangerous because she'll put aside her pride to run when necessary, but is not afraid to fight in the right circumstance...and to me, when the Dragon Reborn shows up on your doorstep with the same figurine he used at the Cleansing, it just doesn't seem prudent to try Compulsion. When she was attacked at the Cleansing, she didn't count on Compulsion to fight, she may have used it once, but almost immediately she switched to killing weaves.

That being said, I think the smartest Forsaken in terms of the marriage between survavibility, intelligence and Talents/strength in the Power outside of Graendal are long dead - I basically think they were destroyed by the bullies or the most selfish/aggressive Forsaken during the War of Power and The Breaking. I'm sorry Forsaken fans, I really do think we've seen the relative bottom of the barrel - what was even funnier was when Graendal called Mesaana a "second rate Chosen".

Demandred may be smart, but his ego makes him inferior as an opponent. He won't fight to win; he'll fight to win as to win the most technical points possible. Even worse, he only wants to kill the Dragon, which makes his weakness very apparent. The only advantages he has are superior channeling strength and a brilliant strategic mind, neither of which gaurantees victory with such character flaws.

Lanfear and Ishamael practically painted bullseyes on their foreheads, counting on bullying Rand into joining them. To make their intelligence/wisdom levels even worse, Lanfear KNEW Rand couldn't be bullied and had the added evidence of Rand killing Ishamael, and still proceeded doing the same thing. She was actually the closest to turning Rand, and she wasted her opportunity to Compel him to her side or outright capture and train him with nagging and stamping her foot. Both are very powerful and very stupid. I can't even list how dumb Ishamael was - he brought a quarterstaff into a fight with a "3rd Age" barbarian, when usually it's the modern people who back off from more "barbaric (ie: violent and weapon smart)" opponents.

Semirhage couldn't keep her eyes on the prize long enough to collar Rand and Travel to the Bore and Sammael fell into a partnership he lacked the cunning to manipulate (he also ended up stamping his feet when he realized he was set up as a target, but he didn't change his tactics). Aginor has potential to be at least the most "book smart" of the group, but lacks the facilities to take advantage of his capabilities and Moghedien doesn't have the strength, courage or timing to rely on her Talent or do anything but get pulled down into her own plans. Ladies and gentlemen, let's remember when she had Elayne and Nynaeve in her hands and instead of Compelling them into her servants, she left them to do their own thing.

At least Mesaana had almost captured him, though if I were in her shoes, I would have Travelled to the Aes Sedai camp, taken the box he was in along with enough Black Ajah to maintain the Shield, and went straight to the Bore.

Graendal is the most lethal because IMHO she doesn't get pinned down with one strategy that easily. If she sees you coming for her, she goes to the other end of the world. If you know what she's doing, she'll run an opposite game just to throw off your scent. I really liked how circumspect she could be in one moment and the next "Oh, let me pop over to Shara and take their rulers, and be back in time for sorbet". Very effective and no hand-wringing (like Moggy), philosophizing (Ishy), gloating (Lanfear/Sammael/Rahvin) or engaging in personal hobbies (Semi and Messy).
"Those who think they have no time for bodily exercise will sooner or later have to find time for illness."
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Graendal - maybe the deadliest Forsaken - 05/11/2009 07:00:12 AM 2005 Views
It has definitely been hinted - 05/11/2009 08:37:04 AM 1056 Views
Graendal wasn't that deadly... - 05/11/2009 09:37:24 AM 1094 Views
I think she was - 05/11/2009 02:42:48 PM 943 Views
RJ still put her in the top category of the Forsaken.. - 05/11/2009 05:24:06 PM 1033 Views
I think she's the most deadly and intelligent. The others are idiots, IMHO. - 05/11/2009 06:38:30 PM 959 Views
This whole Graendal is alive-idea - 05/11/2009 07:13:16 PM 986 Views
I'm divided on it.. - 05/11/2009 07:19:07 PM 918 Views
Here's the deal, though. Semirhage actions actually followed part of the theory to a tee. - 05/11/2009 07:21:21 PM 945 Views
Ah, anyway... - 05/11/2009 07:58:05 PM 849 Views
I agree with you - 05/11/2009 07:32:39 PM 951 Views
Exactly. - 05/11/2009 07:56:00 PM 1170 Views
I just don't understand the logic here - 05/11/2009 07:25:20 PM 991 Views
It's quite simple logic. - 05/11/2009 08:05:15 PM 1032 Views
Then how did she do it? - 05/11/2009 09:41:53 PM 904 Views
Re: Then how did she do it? - 05/11/2009 10:58:01 PM 865 Views
Re: Then how did she do it? - 05/11/2009 11:58:24 PM 974 Views
Re: Then how did she do it? - 06/11/2009 02:22:51 PM 906 Views
It is a possibility. - 06/11/2009 03:43:22 AM 882 Views
Hmm, I have some problems with this - 06/11/2009 04:23:23 AM 997 Views
Some points no one addressed, a.k.a. Graendal lured Rand in... - 06/11/2009 05:16:12 AM 972 Views
Still no answers. I think I'm correct in feeling she is alive. *NM* - 06/11/2009 09:25:47 PM 372 Views
Re: Hmm, I have some problems with this - 06/11/2009 02:34:54 PM 954 Views
But... - 06/11/2009 02:56:32 PM 907 Views
Re: But... - 06/11/2009 03:07:02 PM 930 Views
Re: But... - 06/11/2009 03:53:41 PM 1100 Views
Re: But... - 06/11/2009 07:35:12 PM 864 Views
She's definitely the deadiest - 05/11/2009 02:05:23 PM 981 Views
I think she escaped, but it says something that he had to become worse than a Forsaken to do it - 05/11/2009 06:10:08 PM 916 Views
Eventually they will be reborn... - 05/11/2009 06:30:45 PM 816 Views
Thanks for reminding me. Oh well, then I'm stuck with the whole tearing apart the Pattern thing - 05/11/2009 06:44:35 PM 865 Views
Moiraine says. - 05/11/2009 07:02:10 PM 905 Views
In this case, Moiraine's comment doesn't really matter. - 05/11/2009 07:14:44 PM 900 Views
Re: In this case, Moiraine's comment doesn't really matter. - 05/11/2009 07:35:18 PM 986 Views
From what I keep hearing - 05/11/2009 08:58:57 PM 900 Views
I could well believe it - 05/11/2009 11:03:40 PM 864 Views
Re: In this case, Moiraine's comment doesn't really matter. - 06/11/2009 09:00:01 PM 792 Views
I conceed to Rand's point - 05/11/2009 06:31:38 PM 981 Views
I don't think it's acceptable to tear apart the Pattern to save it. - 05/11/2009 06:40:22 PM 797 Views
True... - 05/11/2009 06:57:24 PM 845 Views
Re: True... - 05/11/2009 07:07:07 PM 843 Views
Re: True... - 05/11/2009 07:35:06 PM 879 Views
Re: True... - 05/11/2009 08:07:42 PM 864 Views
I always thought she was the most dangerous of the chicks. - 06/11/2009 04:28:43 AM 998 Views
Difference between being dangerous and hard to kill--but, she is dangerous - 08/11/2009 02:19:34 AM 915 Views
Semirhage did far more destruction than Graendal. - 24/11/2009 06:09:18 PM 972 Views
Graendal also made chaos in Shara, though... - 24/11/2009 06:36:15 PM 755 Views
It's not surprising when you start looking at her parallels - 12/12/2009 01:03:25 AM 760 Views
Not to take away from Graendal, but my vote goes to Semirhage or Aginor - 16/12/2009 07:03:52 PM 762 Views
meh - 19/12/2009 11:56:12 PM 775 Views

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