Well we could easily assume she also had a plan for the eventuality that Rand's people wouldn't find the conspicuous poisoner and find out the name of the lair from him. The idea that she would calmly seat on compulsed human chair in her mansion while the homicidal Dragon Reborn was just outside her mansion is bizarre.
Not at all. She'd made her moves, and was waiting to see how Rand would react. She simply didn't plan for the possibility that Rand would simply risk destroying existence itself just to wipe out reality in a few kilometers wide radius using balefire. He's supposed to be one of the good guys, remember? Plus, she knows about Rand's inability to harm women, she says that she's counting on it. How would she expect this?
The Pattern is not a delicate flower, people! When they fought the Shadow the last time they were wiping cities left and right with it and the Pattern still stayed in one piece. If Graendal didn't receive information about Semiharge's escape and the subsequent changes in Rand's group she's not worth a zilch as a master spy. That's the kind of information that's sent ASAP
I never thought that Semiharge planned it all along. I know it's tempting to believe in your incompetent fools theory but the big problem with it is that if true, we must then conclude that, excluding some few exceptions like the main heroes in the books, everyone else in the world are even bigger fools, more ridiculously incompetent than even the most incompetent of the forsaken, since by all account they fell into the forsakens' scheme at the drop of the hat every single time.
Erm. No? What schemes? Half of the Forsaken have simply Compelled and Illusioned themselves into positions of power where they operate with all the guile and cunning of Elaida. The other half haven't done anything. And since I have no idea what Demandred is doing, that leaves only Ishamael to have actually been a manipulative little bastard.
So they were doing just fine succeeding in their plots left and right until one of the heroes got into the picture and kicked them down. I don't see how mentioning how they were doing it changes anything. Does the fact that Semiharge used horrific torture to milk out of an aes sedai what she knew negates the fact that she DID get the information she wanted out of her? Does it matter that Rhavin used compulsion on Andoran and Aes Sedai to make them do what he wanted changes the fact that lthings were going according to his plans?
Beside if you look back a little to the time there were no convenient heroes to foil their plans the Forsaken succeeded tremendously in doing whatever they wanted and influencing history just like they do now until a hero comes and ruins it for them..
I really don't see why the Great Lord would give Rand his aid against Semiharge if he didn't want him to escape her. Even supposing a cabal of Aes Sedai and Wise Ones manage to subdue the linked Semiharge Elza and Rand (that are using Rand as their human shield) why would the Great Lord need to interfere? He seems to be a vengeful lord and because Rand used Balefire he will now be unable to punish Semiharge soul. The obvious answer is that the Great Lord wanted Rand to use the True Power all along because it made Rand a darker character, easier to control, and it made him subject to the supposedly irresistible temptation of the True Power that only the Dark Lord can give.
Shai'tan doesn't give a rat's arse about his followers. Torturing the dead is a complete waste of time, why would he do something like that? Heck, why torture his followers, not his enemies?
Well we know he does. We've seen it countless times in the series. I suspect it (people being tortured mercilessly) fits his idea of how the Pattern should work better. It also discourage other followers from betraying or failing him. They know that nothing can be worse than displeasing him.
And yes, I agree with your conclusion. Shai'tan did want Rand to use the True Power to destroy Semirhage. It binds Rand to him, removes his last moral restraint (however annoying it was for us readers) and gets him to use a weapon that risks destroying existence (which is what Shai'tan wants.) But that has nothing to do with Graendal's death.
Nope, except that Graendal would be aware of the changes it wrought in him and therefore would know he would want to use flamboyant and horrible means to get what he wants (balefire an entire mansion to get rid of one enemy or rain fire and destruction on an army that doesn't bow to him)
Not every Forsaken dramatically faced turned out dead. Lanfear reappeared on the scene after her dramatic confrontation in Cairihien. Ishmael reappeared three times already after being soundly given mortal blows. Graendal didn't even get a really dramatic sence.
Lanfear did die after her confrontation in Cairhien. And Ishamael is exceptional.
Meh, the point is she returned from being thrown into another dimension that had its doorway just destroyed after we lirned how tricky and possessive its inhabitants are.
She returned reduced in power and likely Graendal would be the same. Her center of operations was destroyed and her ability to continue to influence the world grows tenuous.
As I said the style fits her better than it does him or the Great Lord. Why would he labor and scheme to torment Rand when he already assigned his capable minion Graendal to it?
If you understand Shai'tan's mind, then you are quite fortunate. We've seen little enough of his schemes. Verin certainly feels that Shai'tan is beyond comprehension.
Verin may be one smartass granny but she's nowhere near us Creator-like observers. We've seen threw the eyes of Legions, We've listened to the secretest of secret conversations, we got the Creator to answer our questions, we've explored and dissected other worlds and creations whenever the fancy struck us. We also weren't limited in our explorations by annoying superiors that told not to look into things that weren't our business or ordered into mandatory ventures that took up all our time and attention. We even had more time to ponder what's it all about than Verin if we count it collectively. So Verin is smart and clever but her failure in no way indicate that we too must fail.
Graendal
- 11/11/2009 11:02:33 AM
1367 Views
supposely we will revisit the same timeline in TOM, and may get a Graendal POV like this. *NM*
- 11/11/2009 12:10:22 PM
248 Views
I agree. I pointed out the same basic problems with assuming she's dead in another post 
*NM*
- 11/11/2009 02:27:33 PM
303 Views
*NM*
- 11/11/2009 02:27:33 PM
303 Views
She's dead.
- 11/11/2009 06:09:49 PM
557 Views
Or is she?
- 11/11/2009 08:18:34 PM
547 Views
Re: Or is she?
- 11/11/2009 10:16:22 PM
509 Views
Re: Or is she?
- 12/11/2009 10:12:42 AM
568 Views
Re: Or is she?
- 12/11/2009 07:44:05 PM
543 Views
You forgot to mention how badly Ishamael got pwned, too - twice - plus the second time Aginor died. *NM*
- 19/11/2009 12:36:16 AM
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Didn't RJ say in an interview a while back that no more Forsaken would be coming back?
- 13/11/2009 04:19:01 PM
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But did she really go away? *NM*
- 13/11/2009 04:28:27 PM
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Yes, she's gone. Your theory is far fetched to say the least. *NM*
- 13/11/2009 05:05:30 PM
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