Active Users:160 Time:19/03/2024 03:48:53 AM
Let's put it this way: The Logic Ninja - 17/04/2004 08:35:30 PM

And your evidence for such a statement? None. You are surmising.
...it's not evidence for a historical Jesus, because it's not contemporary.

Such sources are sometimes the only way historians have of getting any sense of anything as specific as the existence of a person from that long ago. Sure, it's possible that Jesus might've shown up in documents contemporary to his time, but the fires of AD 64 (helpfully referenced by the voice of lews therin) make finding detailed info on almost anyone from that period in Palastine difficult. Your comments are an endictment of historical practice, and I'll be direct--historians know a hell of a lot more about what they're doing than you do.
No, they're not. Historical practice is well and good, but historians can and do disagree.

To be brief: Historians have decided that there is a historical Jesus. Historian's views, practices, and research projects are the measuring rod for such an assertion.
There is NOT the consensus you describe on the issue in the historical community, as TVoLT pointed out to you. Sure, contemporary evidence could have been destroyed, but what we know now is that there is no contemporary evidence... and there IS a giant similarity between the Jesus story and the previous man/god messiah myths. Given that, I think it's more likely that the Jesus story descended/evolved from those myths than that there happened to be a man, undocumented during his time (or documented, but that documentation later destroyed) who just so happened to fit huge chunks of those previous myths.

Why don't you go study up on the issues of constructing historical narratives? It's well documented. I could even get you started.

BTW: There's no Christian conspiracy going on on my part. Why don't you get all revved up about the historical King Arthur or the historical Socrates? You are the one who's looking narrow minded, ignorant, and frankly, not logical.
I never mentioned a Christian conspiracy, much less on your part.
And as far as I'm aware, there probably wasn't a historical King Arthur--and if there was, he was just a military leader, not some glorious hero--and I make that point when it's relevant (not often).

You're the one who's looking narrow-minded and ignorant because you're tossing insults left and right and being generally abusive.


I am not yet born, console me.
I fear that the human race may with tall walls wall me,
with strong drugs dope me, with wise lies lure me,
on black racks rack me, in blood-baths roll me.




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Evidence apart from the Bible of Jesus - 17/04/2004 10:11:22 AM 503 Views
Why? - 17/04/2004 10:39:29 AM 61 Views
Pays to know your competition - 17/04/2004 10:41:02 AM 1 Views
*shakes head sadly* - 17/04/2004 10:41:15 AM 1 Views
I blame that pom - 17/04/2004 11:12:30 AM 1 Views
I've posted twenty odd sources to get you started. - 17/04/2004 11:38:02 AM 89 Views
(Blank subject) - 17/04/2004 12:09:24 PM 59 Views
It really should read Jesus of the Bible as the Bible is not - 17/04/2004 01:07:26 PM 54 Views
Your sources are misleading... - 17/04/2004 01:23:14 PM 1 Views
Thank you - 17/04/2004 01:39:48 PM 1 Views
Thanks *NM* - 17/04/2004 01:40:12 PM 1 Views
Thanks - 17/04/2004 01:41:14 PM 1 Views
Actually, I just missed out my commas - 17/04/2004 01:46:03 PM 1 Views
There are no contemporary, non-Christian records whatsoever - 17/04/2004 02:08:14 PM 1 Views
Tacitus wrote at 100 AD--almost certainly just repeating a story. - 17/04/2004 03:38:02 PM 1 Views
There are none from his time. - 17/04/2004 03:41:46 PM 1 Views
Especialyl when you consider - 17/04/2004 03:46:12 PM 1 Views
You're so... English. - 17/04/2004 05:52:33 PM 1 Views
Meh. - 17/04/2004 06:05:30 PM 1 Views
Sans those details, what do you have? - 17/04/2004 06:12:41 PM 1 Views
- 17/04/2004 07:15:33 PM 1 Views
True enough - 17/04/2004 07:18:04 PM 1 Views
Re: Your sources are misleading... - 17/04/2004 07:23:44 PM 1 Views
But contemporary info is what's important. - 17/04/2004 07:42:46 PM 1 Views
You haven't the slightest clue what you are talking about - 17/04/2004 07:55:47 PM 1 Views
and your dumb ass opinion flies in the face of every historical - 17/04/2004 08:08:50 PM 1 Views
He asked for outside sources... - 17/04/2004 08:17:03 PM 1 Views
Well, not EVERYONE... - 17/04/2004 08:25:15 PM 1 Views
Thanks for the unsubstantiated insults. - 17/04/2004 08:25:58 PM 1 Views
Fair enough, not literally "everyone." *NM* - 17/04/2004 08:27:17 PM 1 Views
They are simply truths - 17/04/2004 08:31:34 PM 1 Views
Let's put it this way: - 17/04/2004 08:35:30 PM 1 Views
josefis - 17/04/2004 09:17:43 PM 22 Views
Josephus... - 17/04/2004 09:21:30 PM 1 Views
Is it that time of the month? (yes you profile says male) - 17/04/2004 10:21:30 PM 1 Views
Furthermore here is a link that shows my statement - 17/04/2004 10:23:28 PM 1 Views
Furthermore why the hostility to a statement? - 17/04/2004 10:24:49 PM 1 Views
Furthermore I must state youre a spent condom. - 17/04/2004 10:25:12 PM 1 Views
Well, it is not a belief that appears to be held by mainstream - 17/04/2004 11:03:24 PM 1 Views
Of course 18th century - 17/04/2004 11:14:24 PM 1 Views
f*ck you're an idiot - 17/04/2004 11:47:37 PM 1 Views
You have done academic work for a journal edited - 17/04/2004 11:57:06 PM 1 Views
Never mind. *NM* - 18/04/2004 12:05:37 AM 1 Views
My speciality was 1500-1900 years after 30 CE/AD, but... - 18/04/2004 12:53:02 AM 45 Views
It does make sense (edit) - 18/04/2004 12:55:20 AM 1 Views
so many edits *NM* - 18/04/2004 01:05:18 AM 1 Views
On account of the debate regarding the 'historicity of Jesus' - 18/04/2004 01:41:10 AM 31 Views
Well...yes. *NM* - 18/04/2004 01:42:33 AM 1 Views
Re: You have done academic work for a journal edited - 18/04/2004 08:57:13 AM 1 Views
Re: Let's put it this way: - 18/04/2004 09:05:50 AM 1 Views
Re: f*ck you're an idiot - 18/04/2004 09:08:41 AM 1 Views
What you wrote makes lots of sense. *NM* - 18/04/2004 09:11:02 AM 1 Views
Re: He asked for outside sources... - 18/04/2004 09:24:39 AM 1 Views
I actually thought WW was reasoned and made good points. - 18/04/2004 09:32:13 AM 1 Views
Dear Weirmon and Logic Ninja, may I interuppt this a moment? - 18/04/2004 12:48:31 PM 1 Views
Very nice. ~applauds~ *NM* - 18/04/2004 03:03:50 PM 1 Views
I can't draw a conclusion without a PhD? - 18/04/2004 03:12:38 PM 1 Views
A completely useless exercise. - 18/04/2004 03:30:34 PM 35 Views
Melodrama does not suit you. Try being less flamboyant. *NM* - 18/04/2004 04:54:14 PM 1 Views
Youre a moron. *NM* - 18/04/2004 04:55:24 PM 1 Views
Youre the one who began with the insults. Remember that. - 18/04/2004 04:56:23 PM 1 Views
No wonder the Scottish lost to the English. - 18/04/2004 04:58:13 PM 1 Views
Ignorant? - 18/04/2004 04:59:22 PM 1 Views
Obviously all the intelligent Scots immigrated to the US *NM* - 18/04/2004 05:00:18 PM 1 Views
do you understand the meaning of the word may? - 18/04/2004 05:05:21 PM 1 Views
Not all historians - 18/04/2004 05:10:16 PM 1 Views
here's why you are an idiot - 18/04/2004 05:14:05 PM 1 Views
Thing is... - 18/04/2004 06:25:05 PM 1 Views
You were not insulting. - 18/04/2004 06:49:01 PM 1 Views
You are leaning towards racism, here. - 18/04/2004 06:53:23 PM 1 Views
Oh, you were plenty insulting. - 18/04/2004 07:06:38 PM 1 Views
An insult for an insult. - 18/04/2004 07:13:33 PM 1 Views
Leave now. - 18/04/2004 07:14:27 PM 1 Views
The statement linked his intelligence to race - 18/04/2004 07:22:23 PM 1 Views
That's a pretty pointless approach. - 18/04/2004 07:39:46 PM 1 Views
I see it as creating balance within the world. *NM* - 18/04/2004 11:11:34 PM 1 Views
He is the same race as me - white. - 18/04/2004 11:13:52 PM 1 Views
That's a minor technicality - 18/04/2004 11:48:54 PM 1 Views
I have tried to be patient with you - 19/04/2004 01:16:44 AM 1 Views
By all means, tolerate - 19/04/2004 02:02:25 AM 1 Views
Thank you - 19/04/2004 05:10:09 AM 1 Views
I hate to say it - 19/04/2004 05:19:59 AM 1 Views
Don't be a complete moron - 19/04/2004 05:21:38 AM 1 Views
Not for me it isn't - 19/04/2004 05:34:44 AM 1 Views
He has greatly influenced history - 19/04/2004 05:36:11 AM 1 Views
Some source are certainly stronger than others - 19/04/2004 08:29:49 AM 1 Views
Not threatened at all by the possibility - 19/04/2004 08:35:33 AM 1 Views
*Takes counsel to heart* - 19/04/2004 08:39:16 AM 1 Views
Re: Thing is... - 19/04/2004 11:31:27 AM 1 Views
lol - 19/04/2004 01:06:56 PM 1 Views
lol *NM* - 19/04/2004 01:07:40 PM 1 Views
Re: Yeah... - 19/04/2004 01:08:43 PM 1 Views
I dont see it as racism,but who says im white? - 19/04/2004 01:10:54 PM 1 Views
I appreciate what your doing, but as i said in a previous post - 19/04/2004 01:17:50 PM 1 Views
... - 19/04/2004 01:39:43 PM 1 Views
Hardly - 19/04/2004 01:47:10 PM 1 Views
Your friend is going to lose that argument - 19/04/2004 03:57:05 PM 1 Views
you're in the wrong here - 19/04/2004 08:27:42 PM 1 Views
oh dear - 19/04/2004 08:32:55 PM 1 Views
perhaps - 19/04/2004 08:35:17 PM 1 Views
A good point, for the sake of the knowledge itself - 19/04/2004 09:48:46 PM 1 Views
Well, it does not have so much do with you as to - 19/04/2004 09:50:04 PM 1 Views
that's not how it looks to me - 20/04/2004 05:51:31 AM 1 Views
Fair enough *NM* - 20/04/2004 11:56:04 AM 1 Views
I never responded to chora.. - 20/04/2004 12:00:18 PM 1 Views
Ok... - 20/04/2004 12:11:10 PM 1 Views
Re: that's not how it looks to me - 20/04/2004 12:16:58 PM 1 Views
yes oh dear. - 20/04/2004 01:44:42 PM 1 Views
basically - 20/04/2004 09:12:52 PM 1 Views
you are wrong - 20/04/2004 09:15:27 PM 1 Views
your bias - 20/04/2004 09:28:49 PM 1 Views
Ok im not too keen on this going on further. - 21/04/2004 10:33:52 AM 1 Views
Re: basically - 21/04/2004 10:43:31 AM 1 Views
Re: your bias - 21/04/2004 10:48:39 AM 1 Views
you're pathetic - 21/04/2004 07:00:30 PM 1 Views
that's because you're in the wrong - 21/04/2004 07:04:50 PM 1 Views
I used to respect your opinion - 22/04/2004 12:12:12 AM 1 Views
You are a pinnacle of academic professionalism and reason - 22/04/2004 12:14:07 AM 1 Views
Headline: Wannabe Academic Throws Hissy Fit *NM* - 22/04/2004 12:18:07 AM 1 Views
Hardly. - 22/04/2004 09:55:35 AM 1 Views
Would you want me to lie? - 22/04/2004 09:58:14 AM 1 Views