Re: Heretics of Dune (2001 initial read; 2010 re-read)
		DomA Send a noteboard - 29/04/2010 03:26:28 PM
		
	 wonder if Heretics of Dune was indeed conceived as the opener of a trilogy, as it had the feel of setting up situations and the chief participants more than it did as something that could be read semi-independently of the other novels.
It was the opener to a trilogy from the get go.
The "original" Dune was a duology, before it was decided to make Dune Messiah a book in itself and not last part of Dune.
Herbert much later decided to return to the Dune world with God-Emperor, which was a stand-alone in his mind (it became a bridge book onkly after the fact).
He decided later to tell the story of the result to Leto's plans, and that he did conceive of as a trilogy from the start, with the two first volumes published and the third one (which remains open ended in the Dune style, but less so than previous ones) outlined.
If you don't have the patience to suffer through the awfully written two-volumes Dune 7 by KJA-BH to dig up in the dross the concepts and ideas Herbert intended to explore through the ending (they are quite apparent still, especially after having read the other books so recently, though they aren't developped with anything near the intelligence of Frank), just ask and I'll tell you about what I remember. You read so fast that I almost recommend you pick the books, though. I found the ideas interesting enough, even if as novels this is real garbage.
Whatever you do, don't read the prequels, and definitely don't read them first. KJA-BH liberally stole from the outline of Dune 7 to "set things up", and setting things up in their mind was spoiling everything by extending every good idea into elaborate and boring storylines set thousands of years before., as they believed Frank's outline for Dune 7 was "too complex" and required much backstory (which was plainly wrong: Frank would have managed to include everyhting and make everything clear within a 300 or 400 pages book, but he just didn't spoon feed his readers as if they were dumb the way KJA does) What they achieved is that every idea in Dune 7 feels quite stale and predictable once you get there (and I don't mean it spoil the plot, I mean the way they bring them up through the prequels in a very b;ah and pedestrian way sort of ruin the ideas themselves...)
	
	
		This message last edited by DomA on 29/04/2010 at 03:32:20 PM
		
	
	
	
	
			Frank Herbert, Dune Chronicles (series reviews within)
	    
	         - 16/04/2010 04:11:40 AM
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			Re: Frank Herbert, Dune
	    
	         - 16/04/2010 06:09:49 PM
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			Re: Frank Herbert, Dune
	    
	         - 17/04/2010 12:08:06 AM
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			Re: Frank Herbert, Dune
	    
	         - 17/04/2010 02:33:38 PM
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			Not all themes are intended by the author. That doesn't mean they aren't there.
	    
	         - 17/04/2010 06:54:14 PM
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			Re: Not all themes are intended by the author. That doesn't mean they aren't there.
	    
	         - 17/04/2010 10:44:18 PM
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			I was using a fairly precise term when I said "ecological"
	    
	         - 18/04/2010 12:13:14 AM
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			Re: I was using a fairly precise term when I said "ecological"
	    
	         - 18/04/2010 03:34:33 AM
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			Please read linked interview...as I call bullshit. Also, why are your walls white?
	    
	         - 18/04/2010 05:18:07 AM
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			Re: Please read linked interview...as I call bullshit. Also, why are your walls white?
	    
	         - 19/04/2010 06:15:26 PM
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			That was most of my issue.
	    
	         - 21/04/2010 12:12:56 AM
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			Just because something plays a dominate role doesn't make it a theme
	    
	         - 21/04/2010 02:09:42 PM
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			Thank you for saying concisely the point I have been trying to make. *NM*
	    
	         - 21/04/2010 06:34:12 PM
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			A theme is merely a dominant strain in a story; there can be more than one theme present
	    
	         - 21/04/2010 11:21:38 PM
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			Re: A theme is merely a dominant strain in a story; there can be more than one theme present
	    
	         - 22/04/2010 04:58:01 AM
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			Re: A theme is merely a dominant strain in a story; there can be more than one theme present
	    
	         - 22/04/2010 04:08:28 PM
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			Texts have different interpretations and Readers emphasize different aspects
	    
	         - 22/04/2010 09:28:05 PM
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			Re: Texts have different interpretations and Readers emphasize different aspects
	    
	         - 23/04/2010 05:22:22 PM
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			Re: Just because something plays a dominate role doesn't make it a theme
	    
	         - 29/04/2010 11:36:45 PM
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			Not really sure how Larry's definition is archaic.
	    
	         - 19/04/2010 07:52:27 PM
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			Re: Not really sure how Larry's definition is archaic.
	    
	         - 20/04/2010 07:04:40 PM
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			Your patronizing manner aside, that's not "archaic" at all.
	    
	         - 21/04/2010 01:46:50 AM
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			Re: Your patronizing manner aside, that's not "archaic" at all.
	    
	         - 21/04/2010 06:23:24 PM
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			People who see this as an ecological book are missing the point of the book
	    
	         - 16/04/2010 06:28:40 PM
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			Books can have more than one theme. Great books almost always do. *NM*
	    
	         - 16/04/2010 07:15:11 PM
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			I agree with that I just never really the ecological theme to Dune
	    
	         - 16/04/2010 10:12:26 PM
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			There are several points to the book/series
	    
	         - 17/04/2010 12:11:38 AM
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			Everyone get something different from a book
	    
	         - 19/04/2010 07:01:51 PM
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			I believe those themes become more pronounced later in the series
	    
	         - 20/04/2010 10:09:36 PM
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			I remember having hated every single character of this book. Some random thoughts
	    
	         - 17/04/2010 05:08:25 PM
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			Well, I enjoyed more of the characters this time around, if that helps
	    
	         - 18/04/2010 12:14:43 AM
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			Re: Frank Herbert, Dune
	    
	         - 17/04/2010 08:05:16 PM
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			I guess we'll have a few disagreements here, Dom  - 17/04/2010 10:22:27 PM
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	         - 17/04/2010 10:22:27 PM
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	     - 17/04/2010 10:22:27 PM
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	         - 17/04/2010 10:22:27 PM
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			Re: I guess we'll have a few disagreements here, Dom  - 18/04/2010 04:38:10 AM
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	         - 18/04/2010 04:38:10 AM
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	     - 18/04/2010 04:38:10 AM
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	         - 18/04/2010 04:38:10 AM
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			Re: I guess we'll have a few disagreements here, Dom  - 19/04/2010 04:04:43 AM
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	         - 19/04/2010 04:04:43 AM
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	     - 19/04/2010 04:04:43 AM
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	         - 19/04/2010 04:04:43 AM
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			Re: I guess we'll have a few disagreements here, Dom  - 22/04/2010 04:31:26 AM
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	         - 22/04/2010 04:31:26 AM
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	     - 22/04/2010 04:31:26 AM
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	         - 22/04/2010 04:31:26 AM
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			I thought all of Dune had begun as a serial in a SF magazine. *NM*
	    
	         - 22/04/2010 01:58:22 PM
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			Dune Messiah (2001 initial read; 2010 re-read)
	    
	         - 19/04/2010 08:42:18 AM
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			Re: Dune Messiah (2001 initial read; 2010 re-read)
	    
	         - 21/04/2010 03:33:46 PM
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			I didn't see that in Alia
	    
	         - 21/04/2010 11:27:22 PM
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			There were a few scenes displaying Alia's abilities/mindset. (spoilers)
	    
	         - 22/04/2010 03:54:32 PM
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			OK, that makes a bit more sense, as I wasn't for sure what you were arguing at first
	    
	         - 22/04/2010 09:14:46 PM
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			One of my favorite series!
	    
	         - 21/04/2010 03:30:57 PM
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			I didn't "miss it" as much as I chose to deemphasize it
	    
	         - 21/04/2010 11:29:50 PM
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			Re: I didn't "miss it" as much as I chose to deemphasize it
	    
	         - 22/04/2010 04:02:26 PM
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			Heretics of Dune (2001 initial read; 2010 re-read)
	    
	         - 28/04/2010 06:02:54 AM
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			Re: Heretics of Dune (2001 initial read; 2010 re-read)
		
	         - 29/04/2010 03:26:28 PM
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