Re: Please read linked interview...as I call bullshit. Also, why are your walls white?
HyogaRott Send a noteboard - 19/04/2010 06:15:26 PM
I live in an apartment, It was the first thing I though of. 
Yes, I am aware that Herbert was extremely interested in ecology and environmental issues. He spent alot of time learning what a desert is, what causes it, and how to alter it.
Perhaps I misunderstood your point, or framed my disagreement in the wrong way. I percieved you to be appraoching it in what I can best characterize... argh my brain isn't working well today and I know I am going to phrase it badly... change tracks..
The point I am and was trying to make is that Dune is not an environmentalist book as we define the term (conotatively, not denotatively) today, ie the Al Gore, tree-hugger, "we must all preserve the planet and minimize our carbon footprint" BS. The environmental issues of Dune is all about changing the natural state of the planet into something else we would prefer. The complete opposite of what "environmental" means in our current society.
Through his research Herbert was able to craft a rich detailed world for his story to occur in. The very richness of it allows us to see how it impacts and changes the paths of the characters. Other characters are forged in different environments. Once you get past the "environmental" surface though you discover that the environment is not really a message or theme of the book(s), it is the story the humans.
The "theme" is how the different environments forced them to become different from one another. How their forging makes what they do "right" in their eyes, and how all those verious perceptions conflict with one another without any black and white or moral absolutes. How in fact every person is really just a shade of moral grey. Though the novel is titled DUNE, it isn't about the planet, it is about the people. Thast is what makes the novel historically significant. That is what Herbert did that changed the Science Fiction genre.

Yes, I am aware that Herbert was extremely interested in ecology and environmental issues. He spent alot of time learning what a desert is, what causes it, and how to alter it.
Perhaps I misunderstood your point, or framed my disagreement in the wrong way. I percieved you to be appraoching it in what I can best characterize... argh my brain isn't working well today and I know I am going to phrase it badly... change tracks..
The point I am and was trying to make is that Dune is not an environmentalist book as we define the term (conotatively, not denotatively) today, ie the Al Gore, tree-hugger, "we must all preserve the planet and minimize our carbon footprint" BS. The environmental issues of Dune is all about changing the natural state of the planet into something else we would prefer. The complete opposite of what "environmental" means in our current society.
Through his research Herbert was able to craft a rich detailed world for his story to occur in. The very richness of it allows us to see how it impacts and changes the paths of the characters. Other characters are forged in different environments. Once you get past the "environmental" surface though you discover that the environment is not really a message or theme of the book(s), it is the story the humans.
The "theme" is how the different environments forced them to become different from one another. How their forging makes what they do "right" in their eyes, and how all those verious perceptions conflict with one another without any black and white or moral absolutes. How in fact every person is really just a shade of moral grey. Though the novel is titled DUNE, it isn't about the planet, it is about the people. Thast is what makes the novel historically significant. That is what Herbert did that changed the Science Fiction genre.
Frank Herbert, Dune Chronicles (series reviews within)
- 16/04/2010 04:11:40 AM
2233 Views
Re: Frank Herbert, Dune
- 16/04/2010 06:09:49 PM
1311 Views
Re: Frank Herbert, Dune
- 17/04/2010 12:08:06 AM
1527 Views
Re: Frank Herbert, Dune
- 17/04/2010 02:33:38 PM
1454 Views
Not all themes are intended by the author. That doesn't mean they aren't there.
- 17/04/2010 06:54:14 PM
1473 Views
Re: Not all themes are intended by the author. That doesn't mean they aren't there.
- 17/04/2010 10:44:18 PM
1330 Views
I was using a fairly precise term when I said "ecological"
- 18/04/2010 12:13:14 AM
1436 Views
Re: I was using a fairly precise term when I said "ecological"
- 18/04/2010 03:34:33 AM
1494 Views
Please read linked interview...as I call bullshit. Also, why are your walls white?
- 18/04/2010 05:18:07 AM
1275 Views
Re: Please read linked interview...as I call bullshit. Also, why are your walls white?
- 19/04/2010 06:15:26 PM
1358 Views
That was most of my issue.
- 21/04/2010 12:12:56 AM
1192 Views
Just because something plays a dominate role doesn't make it a theme
- 21/04/2010 02:09:42 PM
1333 Views
Thank you for saying concisely the point I have been trying to make. *NM*
- 21/04/2010 06:34:12 PM
563 Views
A theme is merely a dominant strain in a story; there can be more than one theme present
- 21/04/2010 11:21:38 PM
1238 Views
Re: A theme is merely a dominant strain in a story; there can be more than one theme present
- 22/04/2010 04:58:01 AM
1205 Views
Re: A theme is merely a dominant strain in a story; there can be more than one theme present
- 22/04/2010 04:08:28 PM
1127 Views
Texts have different interpretations and Readers emphasize different aspects
- 22/04/2010 09:28:05 PM
1254 Views
Re: Texts have different interpretations and Readers emphasize different aspects
- 23/04/2010 05:22:22 PM
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Re: Just because something plays a dominate role doesn't make it a theme
- 29/04/2010 11:36:45 PM
1276 Views
Not really sure how Larry's definition is archaic.
- 19/04/2010 07:52:27 PM
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Re: Not really sure how Larry's definition is archaic.
- 20/04/2010 07:04:40 PM
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Your patronizing manner aside, that's not "archaic" at all.
- 21/04/2010 01:46:50 AM
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Re: Your patronizing manner aside, that's not "archaic" at all.
- 21/04/2010 06:23:24 PM
1306 Views
People who see this as an ecological book are missing the point of the book
- 16/04/2010 06:28:40 PM
1729 Views
Books can have more than one theme. Great books almost always do. *NM*
- 16/04/2010 07:15:11 PM
603 Views
I agree with that I just never really the ecological theme to Dune
- 16/04/2010 10:12:26 PM
1364 Views
There are several points to the book/series
- 17/04/2010 12:11:38 AM
1414 Views
Everyone get something different from a book
- 19/04/2010 07:01:51 PM
1586 Views
I believe those themes become more pronounced later in the series
- 20/04/2010 10:09:36 PM
1337 Views
I remember having hated every single character of this book. Some random thoughts
- 17/04/2010 05:08:25 PM
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Well, I enjoyed more of the characters this time around, if that helps
- 18/04/2010 12:14:43 AM
1411 Views
Re: Frank Herbert, Dune
- 17/04/2010 08:05:16 PM
1803 Views
I guess we'll have a few disagreements here, Dom
- 17/04/2010 10:22:27 PM
1624 Views
- 17/04/2010 10:22:27 PM
1624 Views
Re: I guess we'll have a few disagreements here, Dom
- 18/04/2010 04:38:10 AM
1621 Views
- 18/04/2010 04:38:10 AM
1621 Views
Re: I guess we'll have a few disagreements here, Dom
- 19/04/2010 04:04:43 AM
1466 Views
- 19/04/2010 04:04:43 AM
1466 Views
Re: I guess we'll have a few disagreements here, Dom
- 22/04/2010 04:31:26 AM
1207 Views
- 22/04/2010 04:31:26 AM
1207 Views
I thought all of Dune had begun as a serial in a SF magazine. *NM*
- 22/04/2010 01:58:22 PM
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Dune Messiah (2001 initial read; 2010 re-read)
- 19/04/2010 08:42:18 AM
1948 Views
Re: Dune Messiah (2001 initial read; 2010 re-read)
- 21/04/2010 03:33:46 PM
1214 Views
I didn't see that in Alia
- 21/04/2010 11:27:22 PM
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There were a few scenes displaying Alia's abilities/mindset. (spoilers)
- 22/04/2010 03:54:32 PM
1119 Views
OK, that makes a bit more sense, as I wasn't for sure what you were arguing at first
- 22/04/2010 09:14:46 PM
1227 Views
One of my favorite series!
- 21/04/2010 03:30:57 PM
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I didn't "miss it" as much as I chose to deemphasize it
- 21/04/2010 11:29:50 PM
1047 Views
Re: I didn't "miss it" as much as I chose to deemphasize it
- 22/04/2010 04:02:26 PM
1141 Views
Heretics of Dune (2001 initial read; 2010 re-read)
- 28/04/2010 06:02:54 AM
1106 Views
Re: Heretics of Dune (2001 initial read; 2010 re-read)
- 29/04/2010 03:26:28 PM
1225 Views
