Re: Just because something plays a dominate role doesn't make it a theme
		Chas Send a noteboard - 29/04/2010 11:36:45 PM
		
	The planet was a key factor to the story and the power of deserts is what helped inspire the story but that doesn't mean the story was about deserts.  Now I didn't read the entire 47 page interview so if there is some place there where he says it was about deserts please let me know.  That would be a like saying Star Trek is about space ships because the ship is so important to the story.  The story is about the people on the ship.
Ecology played a major role in the story but I wouldn't call it a theme because there is no ecological message in the story, on the other hand there are messages about politics, religion and power.
In a 1980 interview with Omni Herbert said
"Enormous problems arise when human mistakes are made on the grand scale available to a superhero... Heroes are painful, superheroes are a catastrophe. The mistakes of superheroes involve too many of us in disaster." [1]
Also:
"I had this theory that superheroes were disastrous for humans, that even if you postulated an infallible hero, the things this hero set in motion fell eventually into the hands of fallible mortals. What better way to destroy a civilization, society or a race than to set people into the wild oscillations which follow their turning over their critical judgment and decision-making faculties to a superhero?"
That is a theme
Ecology played a major role in the story but I wouldn't call it a theme because there is no ecological message in the story, on the other hand there are messages about politics, religion and power.
In a 1980 interview with Omni Herbert said
"Enormous problems arise when human mistakes are made on the grand scale available to a superhero... Heroes are painful, superheroes are a catastrophe. The mistakes of superheroes involve too many of us in disaster." [1]
Also:
"I had this theory that superheroes were disastrous for humans, that even if you postulated an infallible hero, the things this hero set in motion fell eventually into the hands of fallible mortals. What better way to destroy a civilization, society or a race than to set people into the wild oscillations which follow their turning over their critical judgment and decision-making faculties to a superhero?"
That is a theme
I last read Dune 7 or 8 years ago. I remember various details but not all. The one thing that sticks with me the most/strongest is Arrakis- it affected everything that happened in the story. I cannot recall a single element that did not in some way trace back to the planet. That is ecology. It ties the entire story together. If that doesn't qualify as a theme than I am sadly undereducated.
			Frank Herbert, Dune Chronicles (series reviews within)
	    
	         - 16/04/2010 04:11:40 AM
	        2016 Views
	        
	
		
	    
	
			Re: Frank Herbert, Dune
	    
	         - 16/04/2010 06:09:49 PM
	        1122 Views
	        
	
		
	    
	
		
	    
			Re: Frank Herbert, Dune
	    
	         - 17/04/2010 12:08:06 AM
	        1311 Views
	        
	
		
	    
	
	    
			Re: Frank Herbert, Dune
	    
	         - 17/04/2010 02:33:38 PM
	        1246 Views
	        
	
		
	    
	
	    
			Not all themes are intended by the author. That doesn't mean they aren't there.
	    
	         - 17/04/2010 06:54:14 PM
	        1289 Views
	        
	
		
	    
	
		
	    
			Re: Not all themes are intended by the author. That doesn't mean they aren't there.
	    
	         - 17/04/2010 10:44:18 PM
	        1120 Views
	        
	    
	
	    
			I was using a fairly precise term when I said "ecological"
	    
	         - 18/04/2010 12:13:14 AM
	        1241 Views
	        
	
		
	    
	
	    
			Re: I was using a fairly precise term when I said "ecological"
	    
	         - 18/04/2010 03:34:33 AM
	        1297 Views
	        
	
		
	    
	
	    
			Please read linked interview...as I call bullshit. Also, why are your walls white?
	    
	         - 18/04/2010 05:18:07 AM
	        1097 Views
	        
	
		
	    
	
		
	    
			Re: Please read linked interview...as I call bullshit. Also, why are your walls white?
	    
	         - 19/04/2010 06:15:26 PM
	        1152 Views
	        
	
		
	    
	
		
	    
			That was most of my issue.
	    
	         - 21/04/2010 12:12:56 AM
	        1020 Views
	        
	
		
	    
	
	    
	
	    
			Just because something plays a dominate role doesn't make it a theme
	    
	         - 21/04/2010 02:09:42 PM
	        1102 Views
	        
	
		
	    
	
	    
			Thank you for saying concisely the point I have been trying to make. *NM*
	    
	         - 21/04/2010 06:34:12 PM
	        468 Views
	        
	    
	
		
	    
			A theme is merely a dominant strain in a story; there can be more than one theme present
	    
	         - 21/04/2010 11:21:38 PM
	        1029 Views
	        
	
		
	    
	
		
		
			Re: A theme is merely a dominant strain in a story; there can be more than one theme present
	    
	         - 22/04/2010 04:58:01 AM
	        1011 Views
	        
	
		
	    
	
	    
	
		
	    
	
		
	    
			Re: A theme is merely a dominant strain in a story; there can be more than one theme present
	    
	         - 22/04/2010 04:08:28 PM
	        953 Views
	        
	
		
	    
	
	    
			Texts have different interpretations and Readers emphasize different aspects
	    
	         - 22/04/2010 09:28:05 PM
	        1074 Views
	        
	
		
	    
	
	    
			Re: Texts have different interpretations and Readers emphasize different aspects
	    
	         - 23/04/2010 05:22:22 PM
	        986 Views
	        
	    
	
	    		
			Re: Just because something plays a dominate role doesn't make it a theme
		
	         - 29/04/2010 11:36:45 PM
	        1076 Views
	        
	    
	
	    
			Not really sure how Larry's definition is archaic.
	    
	         - 19/04/2010 07:52:27 PM
	        1122 Views
	        
	
		
	    
	
	    
			Re: Not really sure how Larry's definition is archaic.
	    
	         - 20/04/2010 07:04:40 PM
	        990 Views
	        
	
		
	    
	
		
	    
	
	    
			Your patronizing manner aside, that's not "archaic" at all.
	    
	         - 21/04/2010 01:46:50 AM
	        878 Views
	        
	
		
	    
	
		
	    
	
	    
			Re: Your patronizing manner aside, that's not "archaic" at all.
	    
	         - 21/04/2010 06:23:24 PM
	        1134 Views
	        
	
		
	    
	
	    
	
	    
			People who see this as an ecological book are missing the point of the book
	    
	         - 16/04/2010 06:28:40 PM
	        1505 Views
	        
	
		
	    
	
		
	    
			Books can have more than one theme. Great books almost always do. *NM*
	    
	         - 16/04/2010 07:15:11 PM
	        495 Views
	        
	
		
	    
	
		
	    
			I agree with that I just never really the ecological theme to Dune
	    
	         - 16/04/2010 10:12:26 PM
	        1179 Views
	        
	
		
	    
	
	    
	
	    
			There are several points to the book/series
	    
	         - 17/04/2010 12:11:38 AM
	        1216 Views
	        
	
		
	    
	
	    
			Everyone get something different from a book
	    
	         - 19/04/2010 07:01:51 PM
	        1397 Views
	        
	
		
	    
	
	    
			I believe those themes become more pronounced later in the series
	    
	         - 20/04/2010 10:09:36 PM
	        1148 Views
	        
	    
	
	    
			I remember having hated every single character of this book. Some random thoughts
	    
	         - 17/04/2010 05:08:25 PM
	        1327 Views
	        
	
		
	    
	
		
	    
			Well, I enjoyed more of the characters this time around, if that helps
	    
	         - 18/04/2010 12:14:43 AM
	        1216 Views
	        
	    
	
		
	    
	
	    
			Re: Frank Herbert, Dune
	    
	         - 17/04/2010 08:05:16 PM
	        1605 Views
	        
	
		
	    
	
		
	    
			I guess we'll have a few disagreements here, Dom  - 17/04/2010 10:22:27 PM
	        1406 Views
	    
	         - 17/04/2010 10:22:27 PM
	        1406 Views
	        
	
		
	    
	
	     - 17/04/2010 10:22:27 PM
	        1406 Views
	    
	         - 17/04/2010 10:22:27 PM
	        1406 Views
	        
	
		
	    
			Re: I guess we'll have a few disagreements here, Dom  - 18/04/2010 04:38:10 AM
	        1347 Views
	    
	         - 18/04/2010 04:38:10 AM
	        1347 Views
	        
	
		
	    
	
	     - 18/04/2010 04:38:10 AM
	        1347 Views
	    
	         - 18/04/2010 04:38:10 AM
	        1347 Views
	        
	
		
	    
			Re: I guess we'll have a few disagreements here, Dom  - 19/04/2010 04:04:43 AM
	        1265 Views
	    
	         - 19/04/2010 04:04:43 AM
	        1265 Views
	        
	
		
	    
	
	     - 19/04/2010 04:04:43 AM
	        1265 Views
	    
	         - 19/04/2010 04:04:43 AM
	        1265 Views
	        
	
		
	    
			Re: I guess we'll have a few disagreements here, Dom  - 22/04/2010 04:31:26 AM
	        1029 Views
	    
	         - 22/04/2010 04:31:26 AM
	        1029 Views
	        
	
		
	    
	
	     - 22/04/2010 04:31:26 AM
	        1029 Views
	    
	         - 22/04/2010 04:31:26 AM
	        1029 Views
	        
	
		
	    
			I thought all of Dune had begun as a serial in a SF magazine. *NM*
	    
	         - 22/04/2010 01:58:22 PM
	        440 Views
	        
	
		
	    
	
	    
	
	    
			Dune Messiah (2001 initial read; 2010 re-read)
	    
	         - 19/04/2010 08:42:18 AM
	        1287 Views
	        
	
		
	    
	
		
	    
			Re: Dune Messiah (2001 initial read; 2010 re-read)
	    
	         - 21/04/2010 03:33:46 PM
	        983 Views
	        
	
		
	    
	
	    
			I didn't see that in Alia
	    
	         - 21/04/2010 11:27:22 PM
	        931 Views
	        
	
		
	    
	
	    
			There were a few scenes displaying Alia's abilities/mindset. (spoilers)
	    
	         - 22/04/2010 03:54:32 PM
	        928 Views
	        
	
		
	    
	
	    
			OK, that makes a bit more sense, as I wasn't for sure what you were arguing at first
	    
	         - 22/04/2010 09:14:46 PM
	        1044 Views
	        
	    
	
	    
			One of my favorite series!
	    
	         - 21/04/2010 03:30:57 PM
	        935 Views
	        
	
		
	    
	
		
	    
	
		
	    
	
		
	    
	
		
	    
	
		
	    
			I didn't "miss it" as much as I chose to deemphasize it
	    
	         - 21/04/2010 11:29:50 PM
	        863 Views
	        
	
		
	    
	
	    
			Re: I didn't "miss it" as much as I chose to deemphasize it
	    
	         - 22/04/2010 04:02:26 PM
	        969 Views
	        
	
		
	    
	
	    
	
	    
			Heretics of Dune (2001 initial read; 2010 re-read)
	    
	         - 28/04/2010 06:02:54 AM
	        907 Views
	        
	
		
	    
	
		
	    
	
	    
			Re: Heretics of Dune (2001 initial read; 2010 re-read)
	    
	         - 29/04/2010 03:26:28 PM
	        983 Views
	        
	
		
	    
	
	    
	
	    
 
  
  
  
  
  
 