Active Users:739 Time:18/12/2025 05:25:28 AM
Re: It's interesting to look at the beginning of the story from Draco's point of view. Camilla Send a noteboard - 26/07/2010 03:18:02 PM
Draco:

The comparison to Dudley sets him up as distasteful. But it is strange to see how everything he says in the first meeting is so clearly just a repetition of what he has heard from others (his father, mainly, I suppose). He is saying "the right thing" based on the circles he is used to, and does not seem aware that it is not on outside of that circle. He is trying to bond with Harry and is rejected.

And then he is rejected again in the train, while his lackeys are standing by. Like what she does with Dumbledore, Rowling gives the character first, then the background information: Ron only tells us Draco's family is Bad after Draco has shown himself to be bad, or at least contemptible, on his own.

As you say, the things he's saying on the first meeting are just the things his parents have been telling him all that time. I wonder if he's met Crabbe and Goyle before? It's tempting to see his situation when boarding the train as really rather similar to Harry's - alone, in a large group of children that he's never really had any contact with, and looking to make friends despite the handicap of his background. Then he meets Crabbe and Goyle and that altercation with Harry, Ron and Hermione happens - but if he hasn't met Crabbe and Goyle yet, all Draco is really doing in that scene is try to show off to his new friends the way his father always does, because that's how he's been taught to act. Then his early associations and those of his father determine his later course in Hogwarts, largely thanks to the system with the four houses which encourages clique formation and rivalry and strife, and in the end the evolution to budding Death Eater is a fairly natural one. The way his father buys him a spot on the Quidditch team in Chamber of Secrets is lame and pathetic in the eyes of the protagonists, but it also tells us that Draco is under significant pressure from his parents, who are interfering more with his life at Hogwarts and with his friends than he might actually like. I think he's rather lonely, despite the appearances, from the start, not just in book six. His bought or wowed friends can't be much of a support, especially not in competitive and merciless Slytherin.


He cannot possibly enjoy the company of Crabbe and Goyle. That is fairly obvious from the conversation we get when Harry and Ron sneak into the Slytherin common room as them. Yet they appear to be his closest friends. It could be that he has met them through his father, or that he knows their parents are affiliated with his father. But that is rather too much politics for a 11-yearold to handle, I feel.

One of Rowling's greatest strengths, as has been mentioned in several posts here already, is to write a children's story that has additional layers for adults without giving the children the feeling they're missing anything. I suppose it could be the benefit of hindsight that creates most of the shades of grey in these earliest novels, but for both Draco and Snape there is some grey even in this book when viewed alone.


Yes.
*MySmiley*
structured procrastinator
Reply to message
Harry Potter Re-read: The Philosopher's Stone - Final section underway! (& next book plans) - 12/07/2010 08:27:51 AM 3685 Views
Chapters 1-3: Introducing Harry - 12/07/2010 08:28:49 AM 1919 Views
Characterisation *NM* - 12/07/2010 08:29:02 AM 1109 Views
My thoughts, such as they are. - 12/07/2010 04:09:55 PM 2026 Views
Agree. She gave us enough to make it interesting. - 12/07/2010 06:45:46 PM 1948 Views
Re: My thoughts, such as they are. *spoilers* - 12/07/2010 07:43:49 PM 1946 Views
You hit the nail on the head. - 13/07/2010 12:20:19 AM 1870 Views
Re: You hit the nail on the head. - 13/07/2010 08:51:45 AM 1800 Views
Writing style *NM* - 12/07/2010 08:29:18 AM 1084 Views
A couple of points. - 12/07/2010 04:10:20 PM 1800 Views
It is very clear it is a children's book at this time - 12/07/2010 07:18:14 PM 2000 Views
True. - 12/07/2010 07:36:49 PM 1934 Views
Re: It is very clear it is a children's book at this time - 12/07/2010 09:31:11 PM 2164 Views
Re: It is very clear it is a children's book at this time - 12/07/2010 09:51:23 PM 1728 Views
Vernon's slow descent into madness is great. - 13/07/2010 04:03:26 AM 1970 Views
Re: Vernon's slow descent into madness is great. - 13/07/2010 08:54:40 AM 1936 Views
Re: Vernon's slow descent into madness is great. - 13/07/2010 01:14:01 PM 1998 Views
Indeed. - 13/07/2010 01:15:23 PM 1772 Views
Early themes *NM* - 12/07/2010 08:29:37 AM 1177 Views
Strong vs weak *spoilers* - 12/07/2010 07:23:45 PM 1755 Views
- 12/07/2010 07:43:27 PM 1805 Views
Re: - 12/07/2010 07:44:56 PM 1761 Views
Chapters 4-10: Making Friends at Hogwarts *NM* - 12/07/2010 08:29:58 AM 1031 Views
Impressions: thoughts about the school, the teachers, the enemies and the friends. *NM* - 14/07/2010 08:29:38 AM 1066 Views
I'd forgotten how annoying Hermione was - 14/07/2010 01:48:13 PM 1851 Views
Me too. - 14/07/2010 04:30:13 PM 1772 Views
Yep. I like seeing her transformation in this story though. - 14/07/2010 04:58:04 PM 1821 Views
Some thoughts before I run off to the library again - 14/07/2010 06:11:45 PM 2022 Views
Good points - 14/07/2010 08:45:56 PM 1923 Views
It's interesting to look at the beginning of the story from Draco's point of view. - 26/07/2010 03:08:38 PM 2176 Views
Re: It's interesting to look at the beginning of the story from Draco's point of view. - 26/07/2010 03:18:02 PM 1772 Views
What about the magic? - 14/07/2010 08:58:51 AM 1838 Views
The magic wasnt really developed at this point - 14/07/2010 02:13:41 PM 1757 Views
Re: The magic wasnt really developed at this point - 14/07/2010 08:53:08 PM 1999 Views
There was one powerful protection - 15/07/2010 01:29:49 AM 1934 Views
I agree - 15/07/2010 04:51:05 AM 1923 Views
Re: I agree - 15/07/2010 05:44:41 AM 1793 Views
Re: There was one powerful protection - 15/07/2010 08:12:40 AM 2078 Views
I think - 14/07/2010 04:34:30 PM 1762 Views
Diagon Alley - Olivander's Foreshadowing - 14/07/2010 05:11:40 PM 2051 Views
Re: Diagon Alley - Olivander's Foreshadowing - 14/07/2010 08:51:06 PM 1754 Views
Agreed. - 14/07/2010 08:57:55 PM 1795 Views
I really need a remembrall. - 14/07/2010 08:57:10 PM 1949 Views
I felt bad for Neville. - 14/07/2010 09:03:49 PM 1899 Views
Indeed. - 14/07/2010 09:05:40 PM 1783 Views
But it doesn't tell you what you've forgotten! - 15/07/2010 02:51:47 AM 2060 Views
I know, right! - 15/07/2010 06:41:01 AM 1760 Views
Exactly. - 15/07/2010 03:22:18 PM 1697 Views
Re: But it doesn't tell you what you've forgotten! - 15/07/2010 08:15:55 AM 1810 Views
Ah, see - 15/07/2010 03:23:49 PM 1738 Views
Chapters 11-17: Harry the Hero *NM* - 12/07/2010 08:30:29 AM 1045 Views
What'd you think of the ending? *NM* - 15/07/2010 05:21:38 PM 1007 Views
Loved it. - 15/07/2010 05:56:06 PM 1824 Views
Two separate things: - 15/07/2010 07:14:08 PM 1817 Views
I hear you - 15/07/2010 08:22:05 PM 1843 Views
Re: Two separate things: - 15/07/2010 08:48:21 PM 1827 Views
I can clarify some stuff for you - 15/07/2010 09:14:07 PM 1900 Views
One of the most sublime, wonderful moments of any book - 15/07/2010 08:18:29 PM 1675 Views
Yes! - 15/07/2010 10:39:11 PM 1851 Views
Lovely - 15/07/2010 09:00:11 PM 1919 Views
Haha - 15/07/2010 09:16:16 PM 1986 Views
Re: Haha - 15/07/2010 09:24:06 PM 1890 Views
But I thought all girls were made of sugar and spice and everything nice? - 15/07/2010 09:26:53 PM 1750 Views
Oh, we are. - 15/07/2010 09:35:17 PM 1666 Views
Ah like vodka vs. wine coolers? *NM* - 15/07/2010 09:48:26 PM 990 Views
Gin - 15/07/2010 09:49:33 PM 1781 Views
I was 16. - 15/07/2010 10:49:33 PM 1669 Views
So was I - 15/07/2010 10:54:24 PM 1708 Views
Honestly, dumbledore is a bit of an ass... - 15/07/2010 10:48:32 PM 1681 Views
Heresy! - 15/07/2010 10:55:28 PM 1702 Views
As I indicated below, I had some issues. - 16/07/2010 03:05:05 AM 1996 Views
Re: As I indicated below, I had some issues. - 16/07/2010 11:14:56 AM 1860 Views
In fairness, it's Hogwarts itself that is all but impregnable. - 26/07/2010 03:55:02 PM 1795 Views
A funny thing I noticed - 15/07/2010 09:00:42 PM 1891 Views
- 15/07/2010 09:18:08 PM 1758 Views
Overall thoughts for the book - 12/07/2010 08:31:37 AM 1820 Views
Foreshadowing and setting up the future - 12/07/2010 08:32:10 AM 1753 Views
Harry's anger management issues? - 12/07/2010 07:14:58 PM 1820 Views
Heh. - 12/07/2010 07:40:40 PM 1850 Views
Nah, not deliberate. - 12/07/2010 09:14:20 PM 1907 Views
Re: Nah, not deliberate. - 12/07/2010 09:55:32 PM 1831 Views
Re: Nah, not deliberate. - 13/07/2010 03:02:59 PM 1773 Views
Re: Nah, not deliberate. - 13/07/2010 03:04:42 PM 1870 Views
I noticed a lot of this. - 12/07/2010 07:22:54 PM 1946 Views
Re: I noticed a lot of this. - 12/07/2010 07:39:25 PM 1862 Views
Re: I noticed a lot of this. - 12/07/2010 07:45:32 PM 1852 Views
~smug~ - 13/07/2010 02:09:15 PM 1834 Views
Indeed. - 13/07/2010 02:10:41 PM 2074 Views
This response implies the experience of being both?? - 13/07/2010 03:23:29 PM 1822 Views
On Ginny: - 12/07/2010 10:36:47 PM 1949 Views
So much (chapters 1-3) *spoilers* - 12/07/2010 07:35:57 PM 2075 Views
Hm. - 12/07/2010 07:38:05 PM 1899 Views
Re: Hm. - 12/07/2010 07:39:08 PM 1909 Views
Re: Hm. - 12/07/2010 07:39:53 PM 1718 Views
Re: Hm. - 12/07/2010 07:44:16 PM 1631 Views
Re: Hm. - 13/07/2010 04:41:12 AM 1726 Views
Re: Hm. - 13/07/2010 08:55:09 AM 1758 Views
I missed the school roof thing this time around too! Good catch there. *NM* - 12/07/2010 09:22:21 PM 1017 Views
The thing that tipped me off - 12/07/2010 09:53:01 PM 1821 Views
Some stuff (chapters 4-11) - 14/07/2010 09:18:35 PM 2015 Views
Re: Some stuff (chapters 4-11) - 14/07/2010 10:30:23 PM 1859 Views
Re: Some stuff (chapters 4-11) - 14/07/2010 10:55:01 PM 1788 Views
Re: Some stuff (chapters 4-11) - 14/07/2010 11:05:59 PM 1825 Views
I can answer your consistency question! - 15/07/2010 02:35:42 AM 1959 Views
You are a clever cookie. - 15/07/2010 08:14:25 AM 1805 Views
Yes - 15/07/2010 03:30:36 PM 1651 Views
Ooh, yes. - 16/07/2010 12:19:13 AM 1657 Views
More stuff (chapters 12-17) - 15/07/2010 08:55:34 PM 1688 Views
Re: More stuff (chapters 12-17) - 15/07/2010 09:19:13 PM 1791 Views
Tiny tiny inconsistency (?) in Ch. 12 - 17/07/2010 04:23:15 PM 1900 Views
Re: Tiny tiny inconsistency (?) in Ch. 12 - 17/07/2010 04:28:04 PM 1803 Views
Re: Tiny tiny inconsistency (?) in Ch. 12 - 17/07/2010 07:12:39 PM 2057 Views
I like it. Thank you. - 20/07/2010 12:53:37 AM 1988 Views
What made this book (and the rest of the series) such a success? - 12/07/2010 08:33:00 AM 1904 Views
I have no idea *spoilers* - 12/07/2010 07:47:58 PM 1992 Views
I agree... - 12/07/2010 09:19:59 PM 1986 Views
It has tons of things in it that every kid dreams of doing - 14/07/2010 01:56:05 PM 1929 Views
Kid? - 14/07/2010 02:01:30 PM 1927 Views
so do I. I was just trying to act mature *NM* - 14/07/2010 02:08:01 PM 1186 Views
Not even just the super stuff Deadsy mentions. - 14/07/2010 04:38:46 PM 2041 Views
It's a simple, well-done little book. - 12/07/2010 07:46:48 PM 1909 Views
you don't read instructions, do you? - 12/07/2010 07:49:24 PM 1959 Views
Heh. - 12/07/2010 07:50:23 PM 1894 Views
Re: Heh. - 12/07/2010 07:51:40 PM 1902 Views
Awwww! - 12/07/2010 07:52:19 PM 1843 Views
- 12/07/2010 07:52:52 PM 1926 Views
Wha? - 12/07/2010 07:50:44 PM 1954 Views
Re: Wha? - 12/07/2010 07:52:21 PM 1924 Views
Pff. - 12/07/2010 07:54:54 PM 1924 Views
*NM* - 12/07/2010 07:56:03 PM 1192 Views
When did you pick up this book? - 12/07/2010 11:30:46 PM 1850 Views
I was 10. - 13/07/2010 04:13:44 AM 1993 Views
I was 16. - 13/07/2010 08:24:02 AM 1915 Views
1999 - 13/07/2010 09:03:03 AM 1911 Views
What do you mean by adult version? - 13/07/2010 02:15:40 PM 2043 Views
Re: What do you mean by adult version? - 13/07/2010 02:17:40 PM 1917 Views
Just before the first movie came out - 13/07/2010 02:17:42 PM 2071 Views
When Prisoner of Azkaban was a hardback. - 13/07/2010 02:23:57 PM 1929 Views
Just after Goblet of Fire was published. - 13/07/2010 11:50:38 PM 2001 Views
Just before Goblet of Fire came out. - 14/07/2010 04:04:21 AM 1956 Views
The first five were out, waited for HBP. - 14/07/2010 06:20:39 AM 2061 Views
You're making me want to talk about toadface - 14/07/2010 02:06:25 PM 1958 Views
Sorry! - 15/07/2010 06:36:11 AM 2025 Views
I held out quite awhile because I don't like "fads" - 14/07/2010 02:04:37 PM 1893 Views
Lol! - 14/07/2010 08:54:47 PM 1990 Views
I did the same thing. - 15/07/2010 06:39:16 AM 1992 Views
Re: I did the same thing. - 15/07/2010 10:01:04 AM 2157 Views
Re: I did the same thing. - 15/07/2010 05:44:28 PM 2070 Views
I would have, if I had known there was hype. I know I would have. - 15/07/2010 03:28:50 PM 2068 Views
- 15/07/2010 05:47:01 PM 2068 Views
I think I was first! - 23/07/2010 07:05:08 PM 1995 Views
Aged 13 or 14 - a while before the first movie (which was Christmas 2001). *NM* - 26/07/2010 04:13:55 PM 1210 Views
Jesus Christ. - 26/07/2010 05:04:46 PM 2148 Views
^That was me. *NM* - 26/07/2010 09:55:49 PM 1184 Views
I was going to ask if it was. *NM* - 26/07/2010 10:04:59 PM 1166 Views
Suggestions for the Re-read - 12/07/2010 08:33:25 AM 1949 Views
I like it so far - 13/07/2010 10:16:49 AM 1928 Views
I can try that for the next book. - 13/07/2010 11:21:01 PM 1928 Views
Can we get chapter discussions everyday? *NM* - 15/07/2010 06:40:30 PM 1142 Views
Inconsistencies Re: the Potter's death... - 15/07/2010 05:16:45 AM 2290 Views
Because they were tricked? They considered Peter and Sirius to be brothers. - 15/07/2010 07:05:27 AM 1929 Views
That's nonsense.. - 16/07/2010 01:08:40 AM 1870 Views
Take it up with Rowling, since you don't believe me. *NM* - 16/07/2010 08:19:58 AM 1085 Views
What's there to believe? - 18/07/2010 06:03:13 AM 1947 Views
Re: That's nonsense.. - 16/07/2010 09:37:59 AM 2063 Views
Also - 16/07/2010 11:17:51 AM 2284 Views
You are correct! There is no inconsistency - 17/07/2010 04:17:35 AM 1986 Views
Huh? - 18/07/2010 05:57:58 AM 1853 Views
But Camilla explained it! - 18/07/2010 09:27:55 AM 2177 Views
Correction - 18/07/2010 10:58:59 AM 1987 Views
I'm fairly certain you guys have that totally wrong... - 18/07/2010 05:42:18 PM 1877 Views
Re: I'm fairly certain you guys have that totally wrong... - 18/07/2010 05:51:36 PM 1889 Views
Re: I'm fairly certain you guys have that totally wrong... - 18/07/2010 06:17:04 PM 2187 Views
Re: I'm fairly certain you guys have that totally wrong... - 18/07/2010 06:28:27 PM 1884 Views
That bothers me too. - 18/07/2010 07:17:14 PM 1960 Views
Re: That bothers me too. - 18/07/2010 07:20:44 PM 1827 Views
Yet... - 18/07/2010 07:47:56 PM 1896 Views
Re: Yet... - 18/07/2010 08:02:31 PM 1929 Views
To quote Dumbledore... - 19/07/2010 05:57:23 AM 1821 Views
Again... - 18/07/2010 07:35:10 PM 2130 Views
Re: Again... - 18/07/2010 08:00:55 PM 1913 Views
Re: Again... - 19/07/2010 06:33:13 AM 2113 Views
Re: Again... - 20/07/2010 04:45:16 PM 1927 Views
Yet another load of bosh. - 21/07/2010 01:00:14 AM 1923 Views
Then let's leave it. - 21/07/2010 06:48:45 AM 2041 Views
Re: Then let's leave it. - 21/07/2010 04:19:35 PM 1930 Views
My two cents - 19/07/2010 06:11:30 AM 2003 Views
It was just the sort of things these two daredevils would do... - 14/09/2010 12:11:20 AM 2399 Views
Re: It was just the sort of things these two daredevils would do... - 14/09/2010 09:20:46 AM 1828 Views
You have to wonder if that's actually true. - 26/07/2010 04:23:31 PM 1899 Views
Re: You have to wonder if that's actually true. - 26/07/2010 05:06:43 PM 2120 Views
I don't know that I'd call it "see through Pettigrew"... - 26/07/2010 06:22:19 PM 1881 Views
^That was me, too. Oh, dear. - 26/07/2010 09:56:43 PM 2105 Views
Since Lily and James were unable to leave the house - 18/07/2010 07:14:21 PM 1889 Views
Re: Since Lily and James were unable to leave the house - 26/07/2010 05:07:48 PM 2333 Views
^ And this, too, was me. - 26/07/2010 09:58:07 PM 1922 Views
Re: ^ And this, too, was me. - 26/07/2010 10:05:41 PM 1845 Views
- 26/07/2010 10:07:36 PM 1739 Views

Reply to Message